Roy Moore accused of sexual contact with 14-year old

[Teallaura]

I'm hearing that the "forgery" is no more than adding, in an obviously different hand, the date and location for where Moore allegedly signed it. How is that a forgery? This is not a "bombshell"; this is a nothing burger.

If it looked like it was part of the signature and she allowed people to believe that it was, yeah, it's a fraud at the very least and brings forgery very much into possibility.

[Teallaura]

As with so many public comments made these days, she did not explicitly attribute the entirety of the note to Moore, leaving room for interpretation. Which interpretation folks here have taken is fairly clear. It certainly could be as you suggest. We don't know it is. The parts of the note that appear to me to be in a second hand are the 1977, the date, and old hickory at the bottom. I am not a handwriting expert and cannot figure out the D.A., but it is odd given he wasn't a DA at the time.

It's also entirely possible we have a woman here who had the yearbook and signature, added the date/location specific information and DA in order to bolster her own claim, and ended up undermining it because she tried to do so. The fact is - we just don't know - and the teams are lining up on both sides, as usual. There is little doubt in my mind that Moore will be elected. I see no way Alabama will send a Democrat to the Washington Senate at this time. What he did or did not do will make no more difference than what Trump did or did not do.

We live in a new political age.

The Democrat in question is running as if he were an independent and is running an attack campaign. That was what hurt Strange, so why Jones thinks it's a good idea, I've no notion.

Alabama elected Shelby originally as a Democrat, not as a Republican. It's not impossible, even now - but the Democrat candidate is aiming for his own foot a lot and the 'case' against Moore is so poor that even Shelby is probably going to be eating more than a little crow from his initial reaction.

So, presented with a Democrat that doesn't like admitting his party affiliation and a Republican that appears to have been falsely accused, most likely as a political hit job, golly, why is anyone surprised that Alabama voters might make a rational decision.

The assumption that it's always us/them is a poor one to make. It's also condescending.














No, I didn't forget - beginning to wonder if I'll ever have time to finish, though.

[Teallaura]

I don't believe anyone ever asked her if she added for her own record the date and place of signing, and she probably didn't feel the need to mention it. Her only intention was to show the message that Moore wrote and signed for her. Everyone seems to be questioning those parts of the note that admittedly weren't written by Moore, but I don't think there is much question about the signature itself, and really thats all that matters.

No, it really, really doesn't - it only proves she got close enough to ask him for a yearbook signature. It doesn't support any part of the accusation.

[Teallaura]

Get your head out of the sand Darth. There is no doubt thats Moores signature and it's identical to the signature on a note presented by the latest accuser of Moore to come forward. When Sean Hannity of FOX propaganda tv questioned Moore about it, he never denied it was his signature, which he would certainly have done if it wasn't his, his only argument concerned the added date and location which he called tampering. Btw, he denied knowing the newest accuser as well until she found an old note from him that she saved. Are they all lying, are they all forging his signature. Of course they're not, stop acting the fool!

There is doubt and good reason to do so. But even if there weren't, that any part was altered taints the evidence. And even if there were no question about it at all, it merely shows that she knew the man, not that he did anything inappropriate or was ever alone with her.

None of the evidence presented to corroborate the two accusations has done so - at all. Instead, we have character witnesses from the same time period coming forward to back Moore. No attorney who likes his license would even think about taking this to court - it's that bad.

Two accusations with no corroboration more than 38 years after the fact - but only six weeks before the election - do not add up to a condemnation of Moore.

The case against Franken had similar issues but was substantiated and stronger - still, it wouldn't end up in court either - for exactly the same reason. The evidence of the actual wrongdoing is weak.

[JimL]

There is doubt and good reason to do so. But even if there weren't, that any part was altered taints the evidence. And even if there were no question about it at all, it merely shows that she knew the man, not that he did anything inappropriate or was ever alone with her.

None of the evidence presented to corroborate the two accusations has done so - at all. Instead, we have character witnesses from the same time period coming forward to back Moore. No attorney who likes his license would even think about taking this to court - it's that bad.

Two accusations with no corroboration more than 38 years after the fact - but only six weeks before the election - do not add up to a condemnation of Moore.

The case against Franken had similar issues but was substantiated and stronger - still, it wouldn't end up in court either - for exactly the same reason. The evidence of the actual wrongdoing is weak.

Thats Alabama think I guess! The note and signature in the year book is not meant to be proof of his guilt, it is meant to be proof of Moores lie that he never knew any of these accusers. He also lied about knowing and dating a third accuser, who also came up with an old note he had written and signed for her. So, the question is who are you going to believe the many women with corroborating evidence or the man who has proven himself to be lying all along? Franken btw, is the only one to have shown any moral character at all in that he admitted to the validity of the accusations and apologised.

[JimL]

While it's not at all unusual for a handwritten signature to look different from other handwriting by the same person, that just looks "too different".

Take a look at the letter Moore wrote to Debbie Gibson, another high schooler that he dated at the time. The writing and the signature matches that in the note above.

[Tassman]

There is doubt and good reason to do so. But even if there weren't, that any part was altered taints the evidence. And even if there were no question about it at all, it merely shows that she knew the man, not that he did anything inappropriate or was ever alone with her.

None of the evidence presented to corroborate the two accusations has done so - at all. Instead, we have character witnesses from the same time period coming forward to back Moore. No attorney who likes his license would even think about taking this to court - it's that bad.

Two accusations with no corroboration more than 38 years after the fact - but only six weeks before the election - do not add up to a condemnation of Moore.

The case against Franken had similar issues but was substantiated and stronger - still, it wouldn't end up in court either - for exactly the same reason. The evidence of the actual wrongdoing is weak.

The difference being that Franken has resigned and Moore has not only NOT resigned but the 'family values' party is supporting him to the hilt.

[Cow Poke]

The difference being that Franken has resigned and Moore has not only NOT resigned but the 'family values' party is supporting him to the hilt.

Did Franken resign? Last I heard he announced that he "will resign" in "the next few weeks". And even CNN calls it "Al Franken's totally unapologetic resignation".

The guy is a total BOZO. That you hold him up as an example of virtue shows how truly twisted your thinking is.

[Cow Poke]

Take a look at the letter Moore wrote to Debbie Gibson, another high schooler that he dated at the time. The writing and the signature matches that in the note above.

The difference between you and me, Jimmy, is that I know I'm not a handwriting expert. And, even if it's the same, what does it prove?

[Cow Poke]

Franken btw, is the only one to have shown any moral character at all in that he admitted to the validity of the accusations and apologised.

And, again, even CNN: Al Franken's totally unapologetic resignation

Washington (CNN)Two things were clear after Al Franken finished his speech on the Senate floor just after noon on Thursday:

1. He was resigning his seat by the end of the year.

2. He didn't believe he had done anything for which he should have been forced to resign.

Franken's speech was defined primarily by his lack of any real apology and the clear bitterness he carries for being pushed out amid allegations that he had groped several women and forcibly tried to kiss others.

Here's the key bit from Franken (bolding is mine):

"Over the last few weeks, a number of women have come forward to talk about how they felt my actions had affected them. I was shocked. I was upset. But in responding to their claim, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation. Because all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously. I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that in fact I haven't done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember very differently."

That's a remarkable statement. Franken is simultaneously saying that he believes the women who have accused him have a right to be heard while also making very clear that he is not admitting he had done the things they alleged.

This guy is a fraud - a total BOZO. To use him as an example of what Moore should be or do is freakin' nuts!

[rogue06]

And, again, even CNN: Al Franken's totally unapologetic resignation

Washington (CNN)Two things were clear after Al Franken finished his speech on the Senate floor just after noon on Thursday:

1. He was resigning his seat by the end of the year.

2. He didn't believe he had done anything for which he should have been forced to resign.

Franken's speech was defined primarily by his lack of any real apology and the clear bitterness he carries for being pushed out amid allegations that he had groped several women and forcibly tried to kiss others.

Here's the key bit from Franken (bolding is mine):

"Over the last few weeks, a number of women have come forward to talk about how they felt my actions had affected them. I was shocked. I was upset. But in responding to their claim, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation. Because all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously. I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that in fact I haven't done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember very differently."

That's a remarkable statement. Franken is simultaneously saying that he believes the women who have accused him have a right to be heard while also making very clear that he is not admitting he had done the things they alleged.

This guy is a fraud - a total BOZO. To use him as an example of what Moore should be or do is freakin' nuts!

His resignation speech was full of bitterness and self-pity and completely free of any apology to the women who he at least first admitted that he had done something to some of them (hard to deny the photograph). But then he has made clear in the past that his apologies for such behavior in the past (like pushing his obsession with raping reporter Leslie Stahl) were total B.S. said only to garner votes.

[Mountain Man]

The case against Franken had similar issues but was substantiated and stronger - still, it wouldn't end up in court either - for exactly the same reason. The evidence of the actual wrongdoing is weak.

A photograph of Franken literally caught in the act is weak evidence?

[JimL]

The difference between you and me, Jimmy, is that I know I'm not a handwriting expert. And, even if it's the same, what does it prove?

For one thing CP, Moore basically admitted that it was his note and signature when only denying the added on date and location of its writing. Take that and compare it to the handwriting in the note Moore sent to Debbie Gibson, another girl that he denies ever knowing, and you can see they are the same handwriting. And what it proves is that he's lying about everything when he says he never had a relationship with any of these girls. That's all that the notes were intended to prove CP, that Moore is lying, and if he is lying about that, about even knowing the girls, then why should we believe him over the girls concerning their accussations? Btw, I'm not a handwriting expert either. Do you know what handwriting experts do CP, they use their eyes and they compare. I think even you can do that CP.

[JimL]

And, again, even CNN: Al Franken's totally unapologetic resignation

Washington (CNN)Two things were clear after Al Franken finished his speech on the Senate floor just after noon on Thursday:

1. He was resigning his seat by the end of the year.

2. He didn't believe he had done anything for which he should have been forced to resign.

Franken's speech was defined primarily by his lack of any real apology and the clear bitterness he carries for being pushed out amid allegations that he had groped several women and forcibly tried to kiss others.

Here's the key bit from Franken (bolding is mine):

"Over the last few weeks, a number of women have come forward to talk about how they felt my actions had affected them. I was shocked. I was upset. But in responding to their claim, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation. Because all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously. I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that in fact I haven't done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember very differently."

That's a remarkable statement. Franken is simultaneously saying that he believes the women who have accused him have a right to be heard while also making very clear that he is not admitting he had done the things they alleged.

This guy is a fraud - a total BOZO. To use him as an example of what Moore should be or do is freakin' nuts!

He apologized CP, he admitted to being guilty of the accusations which is why he is resigning. What he is also saying is that not all of the accusations are accurate in his opinion. Can you say that about the guy you're defending. No, of course you can't, you'd rather rip on a guy accused of much less, that admits to it, apologizes, and resigns.

[Darth Executor]

For one thing CP, Moore basically admitted that it was his note and signature

Yes idiot it was literally his signature as copied from a stamp on the forger's divorce papers, like I already explained.