Liberal Atheists are at it again.

[Roy]

When I was growing up, they basically started the day with class saying the Pledge of Allegiance and a simple prayer. We also said a simple prayer before lunch "God is great and God is good, And we thank you for our food, amen." - anyone who did not want to participate just didn't say the prayer. Nobody even noticed.

Doesn't surprise me. I went to a church school where the Lord's prayer was said every morning. That doesn't mean it was right.

[Sparko]

Doesn't surprise me. I went to a church school where the Lord's prayer was said every morning. That doesn't mean it was right.

My point is that the people who wrote the first amendment did not find it necessary to remove religion from government, so that is clearly NOT what they meant, despite what the supreme court claims they meant today.

[seer]

I'm talking about congresses passing laws that allow or compel schools to initiate morning prayers. I'm talking about state-sanctioned or mandatory prayer by students in public schools. In short, I'm talking about 'school prayer'.

Well I'm not talking about a congress passing a law compelling prayer.

[JimL]

So basically CP is right then. You are lying on your postbit where you say you are an "agnostic" when you have admitted you are an atheist.

Wrong again, like I have said, I see little difference between the two terms, whether one is claiming agnosticism or atheism, they are a non-believer, so I feel no need to change it. You all know where I stand, you're just being disingenuous because, well, because thats the way you are.

[firstfloor]

I agree. However, in what world is calling your opponents' view "superstition" an accurate presentation of their argument? This is why I call you an obvious troll. You know better, yet you make such obviously outrageous statements anyway.

[Sparko]

Wrong again, like I have said, I see little difference between the two terms, whether one is claiming agnosticism or atheism, they are a non-believer, so I feel no need to change it. You all know where I stand, you're just being disingenuous because, well, because thats the way you are.

So if someone said they saw little difference in claiming to be a Christian on their postpit while being an Atheist, that would be fine too? They would not be lying?

The only one being disingenuous is you. Luckily we don't really care what nontheists call themselves here on tweb, we only worry when a nontheist calls themselves a theist or someone calls themselves a Christian when they are not.

[Roy]

They didn't stop it in Washington DC.

We can see how congress had chaplains and had prayer right in the capitol -- and STILL DOES. Why is it OK for Congress to have chaplains and prayers but not schools?

Because congress are choosing optional prayer attendance for themselves, not compulsory attendance for others.

Why didn't they keep religion out of the capitol if they wanted to separate church and state?

Probably because many of them were religious and wanted to be able to partake in their religions. Providing facilities for themselves is not the same as establishing a religion for others.

Why didn't they admonish the schools that they need to keep prayer out because they need to keep religion out of government?

Perhaps because they had no authority over the schools and didn't want to interfere in states' matters.

Why did they put the 10 commandments IN THE SUPREME Court where it still is today?

Did they? The supreme court has moved location several times.

Everything they did shows that they had no problem with religion in government. There was no separation of church and state. The only thing they were worried about is an official state church and congress interfering with someone practicing their religion. Which is exactly what they are doing today. Interfering.

There is a difference between expressing religion while in government and having government foist religion on others. The constitution expressly permits the former and expressly prohibits the latter. And while the incident in the OP may be interfering in someone's practice of their religion, school prayer most certainly is not because no religion that I am aware of requires adherents to compel others to attend religious services in non-religious settings.

[JimL]

So if someone said they saw little difference in claiming to be a Christian on their postpit while being an Atheist, that would be fine too? They would not be lying?

The only one being disingenuous is you. Luckily we don't really care what nontheists call themselves here on tweb, we only worry when a nontheist calls themselves a theist or someone calls themselves a Christian when they are not.

Wrong again, there is little difference between agnosticism and atheism, there's a big and obvious difference between Christianity and and atheism whether you can see the differences or not.

[Roy]

Well I'm not talking about a congress passing a law compelling prayer.

So you won't admit that attendance at school prayer was compulsory at your school. Maybe one day you'll acquire some integrity and stop avoiding inconvenient truths.

[Roy]

My point is that the people who wrote the first amendment did not find it necessary to remove religion from government, so that is clearly NOT what they meant, despite what the supreme court claims they meant today.

It is not necessary to remove voluntary religion from government in order to ensure that involuntary religion is imposed on the populace. If you can't see the difference between members of government providing themselves and their employees with religious facilities vs government establishing a state religion, then you will never convince anyone who can.

[Darth Executor]

It is not necessary to remove voluntary religion from government in order to ensure that involuntary religion is imposed on the populace.

involuntary religion (currently progressive dogma) is imposed on the population throughout the western world. It's just theistic religion you make a big stink about.

[Roy]

Wrong again, there is little difference between agnosticism and atheism,

I disagree.

[seer]

So you won't admit that attendance at school prayer was compulsory at your school. Maybe one day you'll acquire some integrity and stop avoiding inconvenient truths.

No Roy, it is not compulsory to attend a public school. Second, saying the prayer is not compulsory. Just like with the JWs and the Pledge, one might hear something in school that they don't like or agree with - the sky is falling! I guess we should make sure that no kid hears or sees something that offends him/her! I wish I had that option when my son was forced to take sex education in High School or lose credit for that class (which he needed to graduate).

[Sparko]

Because congress are choosing optional prayer attendance for themselves, not compulsory attendance for others.

it has never been compulsory. I lived during the time we had school prayer. There was even a few years where I was convinced by Jehovah's witnesses whom my mom studied with that I should not say the Pledge of Allegiance or say prayers in school so I didn't. Nobody said a word to me about it.

And congress is opened up each session with a prayer, with everyone in attendance. You seem to be just making things up as an attempt to bolster your view.

[Sparko]

Wrong again, there is little difference between agnosticism and atheism, there's a big and obvious difference between Christianity and and atheism whether you can see the differences or not.

well I think there is quite a bit of difference between atheism and agnosticism. So does your opinion override mine? If so then why would not the person who claims there is no difference between Christianity and Atheism not override your opinion?

After all, A Christians doesn't believe in 99.99% of the gods out there, just like an atheist!