Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Liberal Atheists are at it again.
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostYou probably did not notice that I specifically mentioned England as an example of a State Christian church.A state church does not stop other religions from worshiping, an oppressive government such as Saudi Arabia does.There is no need for a minority church to be eliminated when you have a state religion.
State churches often stop other religions or religious minorities from worshiping as they see fit, usually by getting the monarch/government to pass laws that outlaw other religious services. That you wish to deny this makes no difference.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by JedidiahIt is impossible to have am honest discussion with someone who simply makes snide dishonest remarks, like you, JimL and Tass.Certainly not by you.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Psychic Missile View PostUnder what situation is majority opinion threatened?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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No Tassman, we can SEE what the founding fathers meant by actually looking at 200 years of history where they did NOT ban prayer from schools, or religion from politics. If they wanted to keep religion out of politics, then why didn't they? If that is what they meant by the first amendment then why didn't they DO IT? Because it is obvious that what todays SCOTUS claims they meant is NOT what they meant. We can see that by their actions.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWhat I admitted to you idiot was that I first considered myself an agnostic because I couldn't say that I know with certainty one way or the other, but that, after discussing it here on tweb with the likes of you and your's, you changed my mind to a more atheistic perspective. Did you notice the part where I said there is little difference between the two terms?
Doubt it.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo. Their statements and language are clear. Their intent was that the government not favour any one religion (or none) over another (or over none), which would include not permitting laws that force people (including schoolchildren) to attend particular church or religious services.
There will always be prayers in school as long as there are religious students who say grace and take exams. There will always be religion in school as long as there are religious views in society that students need to be taught about.* But neither of these require authority favouring a specific religion or group of religions.
I don't think this is in any way difficult to understand, or controversial, - except when those wishing to foist their own religious views on others deliberately misrepresent it.
*NB: taught about, not taught.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat would be "yours", Jimmy - there's no such word as your's. Yours should never have an apostrophe.Last edited by Roy; 10-24-2017, 10:23 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo Tassman, we can SEE what the founding fathers meant by actually looking at 200 years of history where they did NOT ban prayer from schools, or religion from politics. If they wanted to keep religion out of politics, then why didn't they? If that is what they meant by the first amendment then why didn't they DO IT? Because it is obvious that what todays SCOTUS claims they meant is NOT what they meant. We can see that by their actions.
https://www.christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g011.htmlSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt's a fact that our Founding Fathers even used government resources to explicitly promote Christianity. In George Washington's speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs who had approached him with a request that their children be educated in an American school, he said, "You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."
https://www.christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g011.html
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Originally posted by seer View PostIf students had to attend and listen then it was compulsory.Jehovah Witnesses will not say the pledge, is it compulsory just because they hear it - silly.You bet wrong, I was there.What are you talking about? I'm talking about a school initiating a morning prayer, or having the Ten Commandments on site - not a congress making a law mandating these things.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostSo attending school prayer was compulsory. Students were compelled to sit through religious services of a religion that did not necessarily belong to. It's compulsory if they are not allowed to excuse themselves from the ceremony. Of course you were. Attendance was compulsory. You weren't permitted not to be there. I'm talking about congresses passing laws that allow or compel schools to initiate morning prayers. I'm talking about state-sanctioned or mandatory prayer by students in public schools. In short, I'm talking about 'school prayer'.
It was never anything specifically Christian or Theological in nature. This was back in the 60's and 70's before the whole controversy.Last edited by Sparko; 10-24-2017, 10:20 AM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo Tassman, we can SEE what the founding fathers meant by actually looking at 200 years of history where they did NOT ban prayer from schools, or religion from politics.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt's a fact that our Founding Fathers even used government resources to explicitly promote Christianity. In George Washington's speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs who had approached him with a request that their children be educated in an American school, he said, "You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNo, we can't - because the first amendment didn't apply to state laws governing schools until long after the founding fathers were dead.
We can see how congress had chaplains and had prayer right in the capitol -- and STILL DOES. Why is it OK for Congress to have chaplains and prayers but not schools? Why didn't they keep religion out of the capitol if they wanted to separate church and state? Why didn't they admonish the schools that they need to keep prayer out because they need to keep religion out of government? Why did they put the 10 commandments IN THE SUPREME Court where it still is today? Everything they did shows that they had no problem with religion in government. There was no separation of church and state. The only thing they were worried about is an official state church and congress interfering with someone practicing their religion. Which is exactly what they are doing today. Interfering.
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