Mass Shooting Las Vegas...

[DesertBerean]

I am beginning to think they will never get to find what set him off. This is gonna be a running debate until Judgment Day.

[JimL]

That's not it either. The context here is that Adrift said that the suburbs of Chicago have less violent crime because they are more affluent. But surely the more affluent have greater access to weaponry.

The suburbs have less violent crime because they are more affluent, not because they have greater access to guns. Urban areas would have more violent crime, not because of their access to guns, but because they are poor and more desperate.

[Darth Executor]

The suburbs have less violent crime because they are more affluent, not because they have greater access to guns. Urban areas would have more violent crime, not because of their access to guns, but because they are poor and more desperate.

Except poverty doesn't cause violent crime. If anything it's the other way around, violent crime making people less affluent.

[JimL]

Except poverty doesn't cause violent crime. If anything it's the other way around, violent crime making people less affluent.

Hmm, I see you are way out of touch eh?

[Tassman]

Here's where I'm left scratching my head, because as I have repeatedly shown you, banning guns in Australis didn't actually stop mass killings or decrease the overall rates of suicide and violent crime, including murder. You keep disingenuously focusing on the one or two points of data that appear favorable to your position while ignoring everything else.

Do I really need to keep beating you over the head with the facts?

Once again, statistics show no decrease in suicide or violent crime rates, including murder, following Australia's infamous "buyback" program:

http://gunsandcrime.org/auresult.html

And that's not the only "inconvenient truth":

Yes they do. You live in a world of denial:

In 1996, Australia enacted strict gun laws. It hasn't had a mass shooting since.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/201...provide_a.html

Again, that's not a comprehensive list, and using criteria from an article you posted earlier which considered it a "mass shooting" if 4 or more were injured, you can't even claim that Australia put an end to mass shootings.

I honestly don't understand the liberal mindset that just wants to ban guns and doesn't give a damn about the fact that it doesn't actually make things any safer.

OTOH, compared to the comparatively minuscule number murders in Australia. The list of mass shootings in the US is as follows:

58 killed - October 1, 2017 - In Las Vegas, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock of Mesquite, Nevada, rains gunfire on a crowd of 22,000 concertgoers from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, killing 58 people and injuring almost 500. Witnesses say the gunshots last between 10 and 15 minutes. Officers breach Paddock's hotel room to find him dead. Authorities believe Paddock killed himself and that he acted alone.
49 killed - June 12, 2016 - Omar Saddiqui Mateen, 29, opens fire inside Pulse, a gay nightclub, in Orlando. At least 49 people are killed and more than 50 are injured. Police shoot and kill Mateen during an operation to free hostages officials say he was holding at the club.
32 killed - April 16, 2007 - Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia. A gunman, 23-year-old student Seung-Hui Cho, goes on a shooting spree killing 32 people in two locations and wounding an undetermined number of others on campus. The shooter then commits suicide.
27 killed - December 14, 2012 - Sandy Hook Elementary School - Newtown, Connecticut. Adam Lanza, 20, guns down 20 children, ages six and seven, and six adults, school staff and faculty, before turning the gun on himself. Investigating police later find Nancy Lanza, Adam's mother, dead from a gunshot wound.
23 killed - October 16, 1991 - In Killeen, Texas, 35-year-old George Hennard crashes his pickup truck through the wall of a Luby's Cafeteria. After exiting the truck, Hennard shoots and kills 23 people. He then commits suicide.

Mass shootings up; murder rate down 02:52
21 killed - July 18, 1984 - In San Ysidro, California, 41-year-old James Huberty, armed with a long-barreled Uzi, a pump-action shotgun and a handgun, shoots and kills 21 adults and children at a local McDonald's. A police sharpshooter kills Huberty one hour after the rampage begins.
18 killed - August 1, 1966 - In Austin, Texas, Charles Joseph Whitman, a former US Marine, kills 16 and wounds at least 30 while shooting from a University of Texas tower. Police officers Ramiro Martinez and Houston McCoy shoot and kill Whitman in the tower. Whitman had also killed his mother and wife earlier in the day.
14 killed - December 2, 2015 - Married couple Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik open fire on an employee gathering taking place at Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, killing 14 people.
14 killed - August 20, 1986 - In Edmond, Oklahoma, part-time mail carrier Patrick Henry Sherrill, armed with three handguns kills 14 postal workers in 10 minutes and then takes his own life with a bullet to the head.
13 killed - November 5, 2009 - Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan kills 13 people and injures 32 at Fort Hood, Texas, during a shooting rampage. He is convicted and sentenced to death.
13 killed - April 3, 2009 - In Binghamton, New York, Jiverly Wong kills 13 people and injures four during a shooting at an immigrant community center. He then kills himself.
13 killed - April 20, 1999 - Columbine High School - Littleton, Colorado. Eighteen-year-old Eric Harris and 17-year-old Dylan Klebold kill 12 fellow students and one teacher before committing suicide in the school library.
13 killed - February 18, 1983 - Three men enter the Wah Mee gambling and social club in Seattle, rob the 14 occupants and then shoot each in the head, killing 13. Two of the men, Kwan Fai Mak and Benjamin Ng, are convicted of murder in August 1983. Both are serving life in prison. The third, Wai-Chiu "Tony" Ng, after years on the run in Canada, is eventually convicted of first-degree robbery and second-degree assault. He is deported to Hong Kong in 2014.
13 killed - September 25, 1982 - In Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, 40-year-old George Banks, a prison guard, kills 13 people including five of his own children. In September 2011, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturns his death sentence stating that Banks is mentally incompetent.
13 killed - September 5, 1949 - In Camden, New Jersey, 28-year-old Howard Unruh, a veteran of World War II, shoots and kills 13 people as he walks down Camden's 32nd Street. His weapon of choice is a German-crafted Luger pistol. He is found insane and is committed to a state mental institution. He dies at the age of 88.
12 killed - September 16, 2013 - Shots are fired inside the Washington Navy Yard, killing 12. The shooter, identified as Aaron Alexis, 34, is also killed.
12 killed - July 20, 2012 - Twelve people are killed, and 58 are wounded in a shooting at a screening of the new Batman film in Aurora, Colorado. James E. Holmes, 24, dressed head-to-toe in protective tactical gear, sets off two devices of some kind before spraying the theater with bullets from an AR-15 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun and at least one of two .40-caliber handguns police recovered at the scene. On July 16, 2015, Holmes is found guilty on all 165 counts against him, 24 first-degree murder, 140 attempted murder and one count of possession or control of an explosive or incendiary device. He is sentenced to life in prison without parole.
12 killed - July 29, 1999 - In Atlanta, 44-year-old Mark Barton kills his wife and two children at his home. He then opens fire in two different brokerage houses killing nine people and wounding 12. He later kills himself.
10 killed - March 10, 2009 - In Alabama, Michael McLendon of Kinston, kills 10 and himself. The dead include his mother, grandparents, aunt and uncle.
9 killed - October 1, 2015 - Gunman Christopher Sean Harper-Mercer shoots and kills nine people, injuring another nine, at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon. The shooter dies after a gun battle with police at the college. Six weapons were recovered at the school; another seven were recovered at Harper-Mercer's home.
9 killed - June 17, 2015 - Dylann Roof, 21, shoots and kills nine people inside the historic Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, in Charleston, South Carolina. Eight die at the scene; a ninth dies at a hospital. Roof is arrested the following day; according to police, he confesses and tells investigators he wanted to start a race war. Roof is convicted of murder and hate crimes in federal court and a jury recommends the death penalty. He would be the first person executed for committing federal hate crimes.
9 killed - March 21, 2005 - Red Lake High School, Red Lake, Minnesota. Sixteen-year-old Jeff Weise kills his grandfather and another adult, five students, a teacher and a security officer. He then kills himself.
9 killed - August 10, 1991 - Six monks, a nun, a monk in training and a temple worker are found shot to death at Wat Promkunaram, a Buddhist temple in Waddell, Arizona. Johnathan Doody, 17, and Alessandro Garcia, 16, are later convicted of the crime and receive multiple life sentences.
9 killed - June 18, 1990 - In Jacksonville, Florida, 42-year-old James Pough, angry about his car being repossessed, opens fire at a General Motors Acceptance Corp. office, killing nine people. Pough takes his own life.
8 killed - October 12, 2011 - Eight people are killed during a shooting at the Salon Meritage in Seal Beach, California. The suspect, Scott Evans Dekraai, 41, of Huntington Beach, is arrested without incident as he is trying to leave the scene. The eight victims include Dekraai's ex-wife, Michelle Fournier, 48. He was armed with three guns -- a 9 mm Springfield, a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum, and a Heckler & Koch .45 -- and was wearing body armor during the shooting rampage. After a delay of several years due to allegations of prosecutorial misconduct, Dekraai is sentenced on September 22, 2017, to eight consecutive terms of life in prison without parole, plus an additional term of 232 years to life for attempted murder.
8 killed - August 3, 2010 - Manchester, Connecticut - Omar Thornton kills eight co-workers at Hartford Distributors before turning the gun on himself. Thornton had been asked to resign for stealing and selling alcoholic beverages.
8 killed - January 19, 2010 - Christopher Speight, 39, kills eight people at a house in Appomattox, Virginia. He surrenders to police at the scene the next morning. In February 2013, he is sentenced to five life terms plus 18 years.
8 killed - March 29, 2009 - In Carthage, North Carolina, 45-year-old Robert Stewart kills a nurse and seven elderly patients at a nursing home. In May, the Moore County district attorney announces she will seek the death penalty. On September 3, 2011, a jury finds Stewart guilty of second-degree murder. Stewart is sentenced to 141 to 179 years in prison.
8 killed - December 5, 2007 - In Omaha, Nebraska, 19-year-old Robert Hawkins goes to an area mall and kills eight shoppers before killing himself.
8 killed - July 1, 1993 - In San Francisco, 55-year-old Gian Luigi Ferri kills eight people in a law office and then kills himself.
8 killed - September 14, 1989 - In Louisville, Kentucky, 47-year-old Joseph Wesbecker armed with a AK-47 semiautomatic assault rifle, two MAC-11 semiautomatic pistols, a .38 caliber handgun, a 9-millimeter semiautomatic pistol and a bayonet kills eight co-workers at Standard Gravure Corporation and then kills himself. He had been placed on disability leave from his job due to mental problems.
8 killed - August 20, 1982 - In Miami, Carl Robert Brown, 51, kills eight people with a shotgun at a machine shop. Brown, a teacher, was reportedly angry about a repair bill from the shop. After fleeing the scene on a bicycle, he is fatally shot by a witness who pursues him.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/16/us...cts/index.html

[Darth Executor]

Hmm, I see you are way out of touch eh?

Not at all. "poverty causes violence" is used by both conservatives and liberals to explain away why certain minorities commit so much of it, and also by liberals in general to deflect blame from their own policies, but it's obvious it isn't true because you can find both poor american communities (like Appalachia) and entire countries just as, and often even poorer than diverse urban hotbeds of violence that are very peaceful. If poverty really did cause violence it should be near universal, not magically limited to certain ethnic demographics.

[lilpixieofterror]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/201...provide_a.html



OTOH, compared to the comparatively minuscule number murders in Australia. The list of mass shootings in the US is as follows:

58 killed - October 1, 2017 - In Las Vegas, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock of Mesquite, Nevada, rains gunfire on a crowd of 22,000 concertgoers from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, killing 58 people and injuring almost 500. Witnesses say the gunshots last between 10 and 15 minutes. Officers breach Paddock's hotel room to find him dead. Authorities believe Paddock killed himself and that he acted alone.
49 killed - June 12, 2016 - Omar Saddiqui Mateen, 29, opens fire inside Pulse, a gay nightclub, in Orlando. At least 49 people are killed and more than 50 are injured. Police shoot and kill Mateen during an operation to free hostages officials say he was holding at the club.
32 killed - April 16, 2007 - Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia. A gunman, 23-year-old student Seung-Hui Cho, goes on a shooting spree killing 32 people in two locations and wounding an undetermined number of others on campus. The shooter then commits suicide.
27 killed - December 14, 2012 - Sandy Hook Elementary School - Newtown, Connecticut. Adam Lanza, 20, guns down 20 children, ages six and seven, and six adults, school staff and faculty, before turning the gun on himself. Investigating police later find Nancy Lanza, Adam's mother, dead from a gunshot wound.
23 killed - October 16, 1991 - In Killeen, Texas, 35-year-old George Hennard crashes his pickup truck through the wall of a Luby's Cafeteria. After exiting the truck, Hennard shoots and kills 23 people. He then commits suicide.

Mass shootings up; murder rate down 02:52
21 killed - July 18, 1984 - In San Ysidro, California, 41-year-old James Huberty, armed with a long-barreled Uzi, a pump-action shotgun and a handgun, shoots and kills 21 adults and children at a local McDonald's. A police sharpshooter kills Huberty one hour after the rampage begins.
18 killed - August 1, 1966 - In Austin, Texas, Charles Joseph Whitman, a former US Marine, kills 16 and wounds at least 30 while shooting from a University of Texas tower. Police officers Ramiro Martinez and Houston McCoy shoot and kill Whitman in the tower. Whitman had also killed his mother and wife earlier in the day.
14 killed - December 2, 2015 - Married couple Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik open fire on an employee gathering taking place at Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, killing 14 people.
14 killed - August 20, 1986 - In Edmond, Oklahoma, part-time mail carrier Patrick Henry Sherrill, armed with three handguns kills 14 postal workers in 10 minutes and then takes his own life with a bullet to the head.
13 killed - November 5, 2009 - Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan kills 13 people and injures 32 at Fort Hood, Texas, during a shooting rampage. He is convicted and sentenced to death.
13 killed - April 3, 2009 - In Binghamton, New York, Jiverly Wong kills 13 people and injures four during a shooting at an immigrant community center. He then kills himself.
13 killed - April 20, 1999 - Columbine High School - Littleton, Colorado. Eighteen-year-old Eric Harris and 17-year-old Dylan Klebold kill 12 fellow students and one teacher before committing suicide in the school library.
13 killed - February 18, 1983 - Three men enter the Wah Mee gambling and social club in Seattle, rob the 14 occupants and then shoot each in the head, killing 13. Two of the men, Kwan Fai Mak and Benjamin Ng, are convicted of murder in August 1983. Both are serving life in prison. The third, Wai-Chiu "Tony" Ng, after years on the run in Canada, is eventually convicted of first-degree robbery and second-degree assault. He is deported to Hong Kong in 2014.
13 killed - September 25, 1982 - In Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, 40-year-old George Banks, a prison guard, kills 13 people including five of his own children. In September 2011, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturns his death sentence stating that Banks is mentally incompetent.
13 killed - September 5, 1949 - In Camden, New Jersey, 28-year-old Howard Unruh, a veteran of World War II, shoots and kills 13 people as he walks down Camden's 32nd Street. His weapon of choice is a German-crafted Luger pistol. He is found insane and is committed to a state mental institution. He dies at the age of 88.
12 killed - September 16, 2013 - Shots are fired inside the Washington Navy Yard, killing 12. The shooter, identified as Aaron Alexis, 34, is also killed.
12 killed - July 20, 2012 - Twelve people are killed, and 58 are wounded in a shooting at a screening of the new Batman film in Aurora, Colorado. James E. Holmes, 24, dressed head-to-toe in protective tactical gear, sets off two devices of some kind before spraying the theater with bullets from an AR-15 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun and at least one of two .40-caliber handguns police recovered at the scene. On July 16, 2015, Holmes is found guilty on all 165 counts against him, 24 first-degree murder, 140 attempted murder and one count of possession or control of an explosive or incendiary device. He is sentenced to life in prison without parole.
12 killed - July 29, 1999 - In Atlanta, 44-year-old Mark Barton kills his wife and two children at his home. He then opens fire in two different brokerage houses killing nine people and wounding 12. He later kills himself.
10 killed - March 10, 2009 - In Alabama, Michael McLendon of Kinston, kills 10 and himself. The dead include his mother, grandparents, aunt and uncle.
9 killed - October 1, 2015 - Gunman Christopher Sean Harper-Mercer shoots and kills nine people, injuring another nine, at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon. The shooter dies after a gun battle with police at the college. Six weapons were recovered at the school; another seven were recovered at Harper-Mercer's home.
9 killed - June 17, 2015 - Dylann Roof, 21, shoots and kills nine people inside the historic Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, in Charleston, South Carolina. Eight die at the scene; a ninth dies at a hospital. Roof is arrested the following day; according to police, he confesses and tells investigators he wanted to start a race war. Roof is convicted of murder and hate crimes in federal court and a jury recommends the death penalty. He would be the first person executed for committing federal hate crimes.
9 killed - March 21, 2005 - Red Lake High School, Red Lake, Minnesota. Sixteen-year-old Jeff Weise kills his grandfather and another adult, five students, a teacher and a security officer. He then kills himself.
9 killed - August 10, 1991 - Six monks, a nun, a monk in training and a temple worker are found shot to death at Wat Promkunaram, a Buddhist temple in Waddell, Arizona. Johnathan Doody, 17, and Alessandro Garcia, 16, are later convicted of the crime and receive multiple life sentences.
9 killed - June 18, 1990 - In Jacksonville, Florida, 42-year-old James Pough, angry about his car being repossessed, opens fire at a General Motors Acceptance Corp. office, killing nine people. Pough takes his own life.
8 killed - October 12, 2011 - Eight people are killed during a shooting at the Salon Meritage in Seal Beach, California. The suspect, Scott Evans Dekraai, 41, of Huntington Beach, is arrested without incident as he is trying to leave the scene. The eight victims include Dekraai's ex-wife, Michelle Fournier, 48. He was armed with three guns -- a 9 mm Springfield, a Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum, and a Heckler & Koch .45 -- and was wearing body armor during the shooting rampage. After a delay of several years due to allegations of prosecutorial misconduct, Dekraai is sentenced on September 22, 2017, to eight consecutive terms of life in prison without parole, plus an additional term of 232 years to life for attempted murder.
8 killed - August 3, 2010 - Manchester, Connecticut - Omar Thornton kills eight co-workers at Hartford Distributors before turning the gun on himself. Thornton had been asked to resign for stealing and selling alcoholic beverages.
8 killed - January 19, 2010 - Christopher Speight, 39, kills eight people at a house in Appomattox, Virginia. He surrenders to police at the scene the next morning. In February 2013, he is sentenced to five life terms plus 18 years.
8 killed - March 29, 2009 - In Carthage, North Carolina, 45-year-old Robert Stewart kills a nurse and seven elderly patients at a nursing home. In May, the Moore County district attorney announces she will seek the death penalty. On September 3, 2011, a jury finds Stewart guilty of second-degree murder. Stewart is sentenced to 141 to 179 years in prison.
8 killed - December 5, 2007 - In Omaha, Nebraska, 19-year-old Robert Hawkins goes to an area mall and kills eight shoppers before killing himself.
8 killed - July 1, 1993 - In San Francisco, 55-year-old Gian Luigi Ferri kills eight people in a law office and then kills himself.
8 killed - September 14, 1989 - In Louisville, Kentucky, 47-year-old Joseph Wesbecker armed with a AK-47 semiautomatic assault rifle, two MAC-11 semiautomatic pistols, a .38 caliber handgun, a 9-millimeter semiautomatic pistol and a bayonet kills eight co-workers at Standard Gravure Corporation and then kills himself. He had been placed on disability leave from his job due to mental problems.
8 killed - August 20, 1982 - In Miami, Carl Robert Brown, 51, kills eight people with a shotgun at a machine shop. Brown, a teacher, was reportedly angry about a repair bill from the shop. After fleeing the scene on a bicycle, he is fatally shot by a witness who pursues him.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/16/us...cts/index.html

[lilpixieofterror]

He was pointing out your spelling error. Try not to give Roy such easy nits to pick; he enjoys a challenge.

[Sea of red]

I grew up around firearms in Dallas, TX, so I'm not some gun hating Brady campaign nutter, but the NRA and some on the pro-gun spectrum are becoming fanatical and unreasonable when it comes to firearms.

I frankly don't give a toss what some men in the 18th century thought was sensible policy on weapons. Weapons have advanced far past the limitations they had when the constitution was framed, and we are living in a world where one man can cause massive devastation with the pull of a trigger. It is WE who are living in that world, not the founders, so we are perfectly within our rights as a society to understand that there are more complexities to gun ownership than they were two and half centuries ago, and to change our laws accordingly.

Though I do believe guns are an overall force of good (especially when used to defends ones self and property), I also believe we've lost the big picture in understanding that there is an asset/liability equation when it comes to what kind of weapons we allow to whom, and how much we allow of what is going to be legal.

While we can't save everyone, nor can we stop every shooting, perhaps we can limit the number of people impacted by these madmen with sensible revisions to existing laws. I'm not going to pretend I have the answers, but surely there is a way to respect the idea of private gun ownership while managing the inherit risk it comes with.

My two cents.

[lilpixieofterror]

[Roy]

... a purposely inserted spelling error, ...

carnal virtues

[JonathanL]

[Mountain Man]

You used the words 'perfectly safe' about a gun - that's the best evidence that you DON'T know how to handle one.

I may not like them, but I know enough about handling them to know that a gun is ALWAYS loaded - even if you just took out the bullets - and ALWAYS dangerous - even if you're sure it isn't loaded. Treating a firearm with any less respect is the hallmark of a poor gun owner - and why guns should be regulated.

Yes, I used the words "perfectly safe", but I qualified that with "if handled responsibly". The implication, obviously, is that a gun irresponsibly handled is not safe, and in your own experience, people who did something "STUPID" (your emphasis) -- that is to say people who did not handle their firearm responsibly -- resulted in someone's accidental death.

[Mountain Man]

You haven't shown how the data compiled by GunsAndCrime.org is in anyway biased, distorted, or misleading. You just don't like the fact that Australia's infamous "buyback" program has been a bust as far as violent crime and murder statistics are concerned, so you're leaning hard into the genetic fallacy even though it does nothing to refute the facts on record. Even the rate of mass killings remained unchanged. According to this Wikipedia entry, there were around a dozen mass killings in the 20-years before 1996, and there have been around a dozen mass killings in the 20-years since. Why are you liberals so hot and bothered about taking people's guns when the facts show that it does nothing to curtail violent crime?

In 1996, Australia enacted strict gun laws. It hasn't had a mass shooting since.

It depends on how you define "mass shooting". If we use the criteria from the article you threw in my face earlier then you can't claim this. Even Roy conceded that you blew it on this point.

[Sparko]

That's not it either. The context here is that Adrift said that the suburbs of Chicago have less violent crime because they are more affluent. But surely the more affluent have greater access to weaponry.

Liberals seem to think guns are cheap or you can just pick them up off the street. They are not. Even cheap used legal handguns typically run around $300-$400 and up. Buying one illegally usually will cost a lot more. So that kinda tells you where the priorities are in poor neighborhoods where gang violence is such a problem. Instead of spending money on food and families, they are spending money on guns. Lots of money.

http://www.firearmspriceguide.com/guns/search/glock