Originally posted by rogue06
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Rush Limbaugh: Hurricanes are a liberal conspiracy for promoting climate change
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWouldn't synthetic coal be a viable option to mining it?Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI'm not sure that is the case but few realize that much of the electricity these cars use comes from coal-burning power plants.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI'm not sure that is the case but few realize that much of the electricity these cars use comes from coal-burning power plants."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostWell it depends on the country obviously. In the US the electricity grid is 40% coal, here it's 3% coal.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Plus New Zealand isn't a coal rich nation. The US has the largest coal reserves in the world. 25% of total coal reserves are found in the US. With that much coal sitting around it only makes sense the US power grid would make use of it."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI have no problems with incentivizing people to develop new technologies, but I do have a problem with artificially decentivizing current technology with penalties and taxes before we have a solution in place. And the best incentive to develop new technologies is the free market and capitalism. The guy who invents the better mouse trap makes the most profit. You can't force inventiveness. It happens in its own time.
I did just come across this interesting development that will probably accelerate the adoption of electric cars:
Fully charging an electric car battery in 5 minutes with a 300 mile range:
https://www.engadget.com/2017/05/12/...-battery-demo/
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostWhat specific amount of climate change has human activity brought about and how did you reach that conclusion?
https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-r...r4-wg1-spm.pdf
Here's the tl;dr from the IPCC Summary: Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and closes a window in the IR emission spectrum. This cause heat to be trapped. By itself its roughly 1C per doubling of CO2 partial concentration. An increase in temperature causes an increase in air humidity as the air absorbs more water from the oceans. Since water is also a greenhouse gas, this causes a positive feedback mechanism. Taking all the various feedbacks, both positive and negative together, you get roughly 3C per doubling of CO2.
Since the seventies we've increased the concentration in the atmosphere from 310ppm to 400pmm (parts per million), which gives roughly 1C of heating, which is what we see.
Why is central planning the only solution to dealing with climate change?
I personally would love to see a US Conservative party that took global warming seriously, and proposed solutions that were more consistent with their free-market based ideals, but I don't see it that much.
It'd be quite a strong argument against free-market capitalism if it could be shown that it was incapable of dealing with global effects. If the cost of pollution isn't added into the price of the products, then companies are just off-loading cost of the items to others. I'm not sure how completely unfettered free-market capitalism can solve that problems without introducing the equivalent of a carbon tax.
But I'm not a conservative, its you guys who should be telling me how you'd deal with Global Warming.
What can be done and is it already too late anyway?
In between those two extremes, there's more reasonable goals, where the rich western countries, Europe, USA as well as China and Russia, transition completely to renewable by 2050. Other countries less economically blessed by 2100. For the poorest of countries the IPCC report suggests that whatever energy source is cheap and will help them transition out of abject poverty to healthier living is preferable, even if that is coal.
You can see the estimates of what would happen given various responses. Its why a lot of politicians have talked about the 2.5C goal, which everyone agrees ambitious but possible. Even if we don't reach that, it'd be better than the worst of the alternatives.
Only with dooms day alarmist and people using it to bypass the ballet box, so they could enact their dreams of socialism upon the rest of us.Last edited by Leonhard; 09-16-2017, 02:33 AM.
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Most of our electricity comes from hydro power so it's really a question of population density. In both the US and NZ, most rivers that can reasonably have hydro power stations built on them, have been. That provides a certain finite amount of power, and is enough to sustain a certain level of population relative to land area. Once your population goes above that, you need electricity from other sources.
Despite the fact that we're a coal-rich nation, the government has decided to close our last coal power plants because of climate-change issues, and transition that part of our power grid to geothermal energy (being on the 'ring of fire' like the US, we have plenty of volcanoes and hot springs). Wind and solar are a bit awkward for us, because the wind at our latitude tends to be quite gusty rather than constant and so wind turbines need to be carefully designed, and we're a bit far from the equator for solar to be ideal."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI'm not sure that is the case but few realize that much of the electricity these cars use comes from coal-burning power plants.
Most of the energy released in a cylinder goes out of the exhaust, into heating the air the cooler blows trying to keep the engine block from melting.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd what about some of the destructive practices that fuel the "green industry", such as strip mining for rare minerals,
and the toxic substances that are produced during the manufacture (and eventual disposal) of fuel cells and solar panels?
As for toxicity of solar cells that strongly depends on their type. I prefer silicon based solar cells which are effectively glass in comparison to thin film solar cells that do contain noxious heavy metals. However the answer here is the same for the petrochemical industry, for manufacturing, for shipping, fishing, whatever... get good environmental regulations in place, and police them. There's not much more to it than that.
I mean, as long as we're talking about a level playing field. I once read a study which concluded, ironically, that from raw materials to junkyard, a Hummer has a smaller environmental impact than an electric car.
This is the study you might be referring to which looked at the CO2 cost of producing a Tesla in comparison to a Hummer. Sans the battery, the two were equivalent, with the battery, the Tesla caused 15% more CO2 in production than the Hummer.
All in all over a ton of CO2 to produce both cars. Quite a bit. But they concluded that the Tesla massively beat the Hummer. Why?
Well its simple, how much CO2 was avoiding when you drove the car, vs Hummer. Over a lifetime? They went ahead and did those calculations, even assuming that 53% of the power came from a coal power plant (realistic US scenario), the Tesla still beat the Hummer hands down. No competition. Also the battery is recycled recovering 70% of the carbon used to making it, further helping the case for the Tesla car.
Forbes has a tl;dr https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2.../#536fc73b6096
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterrorPlus New Zealand isn't a coal rich nation.Originally posted by StarlightDespite the fact that we're a coal-rich nation
Based on past experience, I'll take Starlight's knowledge over that of LPOT.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostOne of you must be wrong.
Based on past experience, I'll take Starlight's knowledge over that of LPOT.
Possibly you saw in international news when a coal mine explosion here in 2010 killed 29 miners. The right-wing government had dialed down the safety regulations sadly..."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by StarlightThe right-wing government had dialed down the safety regulations sadly...
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