Debunked: Socialism has never worked

[Sparko]

So you would like it if Atheist would just shut up and keep their opinions to themselves. Gotcha! Too bad, ain't gonna happen.

Reject it all you want, its your right to believe in, and to put your confidence in, a ficticious character.

no dumbass. He has been arguing that atheists need to express their opinions and DEFEND their view. Tassman has been arguing that he doesn't have to. Thus my comment to go ahead and just stop already. If you don't want to defend your view, then don't. It makes it easier on us theists. derp.

Damn you are stupid.

[Roy]

You were the one who presented the example of stampists doing things astampists did not like. If you were an astampist who didn't like what the stampists were doing it would behoove you to argue against them and present a case against stampism. If you don't want to argue against them, then that is your problem alone. It won't bother the stampists if you don't argue against them, it makes it easier for them to promote stampism.

I think you missed the point, Sparko.

[Sparko]

I think you missed the point, Sparko.

please illuminate me.

[JimL]

You can not be this thick. I refuse to believe it. Sparko is not telling you to not debate. He's saying that if you have no belief, no view on the subject "does God or does God not exist", then stop wasting everyone's time coming to this forum debating about it. He's attempting to get you to see the absurdity of your claim that you lack a belief, and yet you argue daily about a belief that you claim to lack.

But we do have a view on the subject, our view is that god doesn't exist. Got it bird brain? Now if you and Sparko don't like it and want to think that atheism is believing in some-thing, then feel free to do so. If you want to make an argument of it then feel free and stop being whiney little babies. Tell us what the thing is that us atheists believe in and worship?

[Sparko]

But we do have a view on the subject, our view is that god doesn't exist. Got it bird brain? Now if you and Sparko don't like it and want to think that atheism is believing in some-thing, then feel free to do so. If you want to make an argument of it then feel free and stop being whiney little babies. Tell us what the thing is that us atheists believe in and worship?

I thought you were an agnostic?

[Roy]

please illuminate me.

If philatelist present arguments and evidence to back their evangelism and imposition, they should be addressed. If they just waggle their fingers and refuse to describe the tenets of philately beyond saying 'Uh, stamps rule, a-fill-a-telly is evil', then there is nothing to address and pointing out that there is nothing to address is not only sufficient but the only available option.

[JimL]

no dumbass. He has been arguing that atheists need to express their opinions and DEFEND their view. Tassman has been arguing that he doesn't have to. Thus my comment to go ahead and just stop already. If you don't want to defend your view, then don't. It makes it easier on us theists. derp.

Damn you are stupid.

No actually you just think too highly of yourself Sparko. Tassman and I express our opinions and express our views all the time, so stop your constant and pathetic whining would you please. And btw, you're the one who still believes in Santa Clauss, oops, I mean the war god YHWH, so remember, glass houses!

[Adrift]

But we do have a view on the subject, our view is that god doesn't exist. Got it bird brain? Now if you and Sparko don't like it and want to think that atheism is believing in some-thing, then feel free to do so. If you want to make an argument of it then feel free and stop being whiney little babies. Tell us what the thing is that us atheists believe in and worship?

I...honestly....don't know how to reply to this post. It is so completely mind-boggling that I feel like I'm in a dream reading it.

You...You honestly thought that what we've been arguing about all these pages is that we think atheists believed in and worshipped something? Really?

What we've been debating is that you do not lack a belief. You confirmed that by stating, "we do have a view on the subject, our view is that god doesn't exist."

That's precisely what we've been trying to get you to see all this time. That's not a lack of belief, that IS a belief.

[Adrift]

I have a viewpoint concerning theistic beliefs. I'm happy to defend it. It's not a belief in the sense that most religions are beliefs.

You don't need to belong to a religion to be a theist, to believe God exists. As an atheist, you yourself have a belief about the subject of God. No one is saying it's a religious belief, but it is a belief. It certainly isn't a lack of belief.

[JimL]

I...honestly....don't know how to reply to this post. It is so completely mind-boggling that I feel like I'm in a dream reading it.

You...You honestly thought that what we've been arguing about all these pages is that we think atheists believed in and worshipped something? Really?

What we've been debating is that you do not lack a belief. You confirmed that by stating, "we do have a view on the subject, our view is that god doesn't exist."

That's precisely what we've been trying to get you to see all this time. That's not a lack of belief, that IS a belief.

Wow, and you call me stupid. No, our view is that we do not believe your claim that a god exist. Now why don't you stop being idiotic and drop this idiotic argument. If it makes you feel better, then feel free to think of my view as a belief, rather than what it is, a disbelief.

[Roy]

You don't need to belong to a religion to be a theist, to believe God exists. As an atheist, you yourself have a belief about the subject of God. No one is saying it's a religious belief, but it is a belief. It certainly isn't a lack of belief.

You can call it a belief if you like (though I'd prefer you call it a belief about gods rather than a belief about God), but even if you do it's not a belief in something specific, it would at best be a belief about the beliefs of others. It would not be the same type of belief as your belief in God.

I lack a belief in your god, just like you lack a belief in Shub-Niggurath or Edward Hyde or Weedo the Invincible. Do you consider your view that Edward Hyde is fictional a belief similar to your belief in God? The problem is not whether you use the same word 'belief' in both cases, it's that you're equating two different types of view.

Usually those claiming atheism is a belief are comparing it with theism. The comparison fails. As soon as you admit that it is a different type of belief, then the larger argument is (temporarily) conceded. It's an argument over the meaning of words only.

[JimL]

I thought you were an agnostic?

I once, having grown up with only the religious perspective, considered myself to be agnostic, having grown up and looked more deeply and objectively into the issue I now believe the bible to be crap and god to be a fiction. But since I can't know anything with absolute certainty, I feel that agnostic is still an apt enough discriptor. I don't really care much, or see much difference in the two.

[Sparko]

If philatelist present arguments and evidence to back their evangelism and imposition, they should be addressed. If they just waggle their fingers and refuse to describe the tenets of philately beyond saying 'Uh, stamps rule, a-fill-a-telly is evil', then there is nothing to address and pointing out that there is nothing to address is not only sufficient but the only available option.

well duh. But Adrift was actually giving an example of why atheists should argue their case and was showing how not arguing would be idiotic by using the "stampist" example. Tassman has been the one saying that atheists don't have to defend their view. Personally, I think he should do as he says and stop defending atheism. He is really bad at it. He makes you guys look worse.

[Adrift]

Wow, and you call me stupid. No, our view is that we do not believe your claim that a god exist. Now why don't you stop being idiotic and drop this idiotic argument. If it makes you feel better, then feel free to think of my view as a belief, rather than what it is, a disbelief.

No, I haven't called you stupid. I said "you cannot be this thick", and I honestly (hopefully) don't think you are. I don't know why you're not getting this. The best I can come up with is that you're so set in your "us vs. them" thinking that you can't concede when others are right.

You do have a belief, a view, and in your own words that view is that "god doesn't exist". As long as atheists refuse to shoulder their share of the burden of proof for their view by claiming that they lack beliefs, I (or someone like me) will continue to call them out.

[JimL]

well duh. But Adrift was actually giving an example of why atheists should argue their case and was showing how not arguing would be idiotic by using the "stampist" example. Tassman has been the one saying that atheists don't have to defend their view. Personally, I think he should do as he says and stop defending atheism. He is really bad at it. He makes you guys look worse.

No, actually Tass makes you guys look worse, Tass blows your arguments out of the water, which is probably why you would like him to stop.