What pivotal US laws were uniquely inspired by the 10 commandments?

[Sparko]

We shouldn’t have laws against working on the Sabbath, sodomy, and adultery. Outlawing those activities would put a lot of Christians in the slammer.

If we shouldn’t outlaw remarriage or belonging to a “wrong” religion, then maybe we shouldn’t advocate such legalism by publicly displaying the Decalogue.

The 10 commandments are relevant to more than just Christianity. It is also part of Judaism and Islam.

[whag]

You are all over the map - those were laws that the Founders instituted, something you suggested did not happen...And forcing conversion was not a Christian thing. At least not Biblically. Deism has nothing to do with that - Deism has no opinion on forced conversion or any other matter of law or morals.

Have you ever read the Decalogue? I’ll give you one more chance to act informed here:

1. List the laws in it that should have been enforced THEN.
2. List the laws in it that should be enforced NOW.

There are only ten, so this shouldn’t be too hard.

[Sparko]

Good thread.

CD, Hypatia is applauding you. That is evidence enough that you are wrong, Q.E.D.

[seer]

Have you ever read the Decalogue? I’ll give you one more chance to act informed here:

1. List the laws in it that should have been enforced THEN.
2. List the laws in it that should be enforced NOW.

There are only ten, so this shouldn’t be too hard.

No, first admit that Deism has nothing to do with any of this. Deism doesn't care if we have laws against adultery or working on the sabbath.

[whag]

Deism doesn't do any of this.

a. Deism


European Enlightenment thinkers conceived tradition, custom and prejudice (Vorurteil) as barriers to gaining true knowledge of the universal laws of nature. The solution was deism or understanding God’s existence as divorced from holy books, divine providence, revealed religion, prophecy and miracles; instead basing religious belief on reason and observation of the natural world. Deists appreciated God as a reasonable Deity. A reasonable God endowed humans with rationality in order that they might discover the moral instructions of the universe in the natural law. God created the universal laws that govern nature, and afterwards humans realize God’s will through sound judgment and wise action. Deists were typically (though not always) Protestants, sharing a disdain for the religious dogmatism and blind obedience to tradition exemplified by the Catholic Church. Rather than fight members of the Catholic faith with violence and intolerance, most deists resorted to the use of tamer weapons such as humor and mockery.


https://iep.utm.edu/american-enlight...0were%20deists.

Deists believed in religious tolerance rather than forced conversion.

[Diogenes]

Deists believed in religious tolerance rather than forced conversion.

And Christians can't believe in religious tolerance and not forced conversion?

[seer]

a. Deism


European Enlightenment thinkers conceived tradition, custom and prejudice (Vorurteil) as barriers to gaining true knowledge of the universal laws of nature. The solution was deism or understanding God’s existence as divorced from holy books, divine providence, revealed religion, prophecy and miracles; instead basing religious belief on reason and observation of the natural world. Deists appreciated God as a reasonable Deity. A reasonable God endowed humans with rationality in order that they might discover the moral instructions of the universe in the natural law. God created the universal laws that govern nature, and afterwards humans realize God’s will through sound judgment and wise action. Deists were typically (though not always) Protestants, sharing a disdain for the religious dogmatism and blind obedience to tradition exemplified by the Catholic Church. Rather than fight members of the Catholic faith with violence and intolerance, most deists resorted to the use of tamer weapons such as humor and mockery.


https://iep.utm.edu/american-enlight...0were%20deists.

Deists believed in religious tolerance rather than forced conversion.

Again your link is bunk. It claims that Adams, Washington and Madison were Deists without evidence. And why would the Deist god, who did not interact with mankind, care what laws we enacted or not?

[whag]

And Christians can't believe in religious tolerance and not forced conversion?

The thread is about the Decalogue’s being uniquely influential to American law. The support is that FF selectively enforced some of the laws. Seer’s already saying the enforcement of sodomy was somehow Decalogue-rooted.

[whag]

Deism doesn't care if we have laws against adultery or working on the sabbath.

Your argument is based on FF enforcing these laws, which you specified as sabbath, adultery, and sodomy. Sodomy isn’t a commandment.

Answer the question. Which laws from The Decalogue should have been enforced then and which ones should be enforced now? You’re avoiding answering the question because it exposes the hollowness of the stunt.

[Diogenes]

The thread is about the Decalogue’s being uniquely influential to American law. The support is that FF selectively enforced some of the laws. Seer’s already saying the enforcement of sodomy was somehow Decalogue-rooted.

You are the one it seems who brought deism and other topics like religious tolerance into the mix. John Locke, a Christian, in the simplest sense, wrote a rather influential essay on tolerance. Roger Williams was a famous advocate of tolerance as was William Penn.

Unless you want to argue there were pagan influences that would account for such, it very likely would have been the development of Christianity that would lend to such an influence. For the aspect of uniqueness, Christianity finds fault with both the active and passive activity whereas elsewhere only the passive participant tended to be frowned upon.

[seer]

Your argument is based on FF enforcing these laws, which you specified as sabbath, adultery, and sodomy. Sodomy isn’t a commandment.

It is a Biblical law.

Answer the question. Which laws from The Decalogue should have been enforced then and which ones should be enforced now? You’re avoiding answering the question because it exposes the hollowness of the stunt.

It doesn't matter. It only matters that the Founders did use the Ten Commandments, whether in part, or not, doesn't matter.

The thread is about the Decalogue’s being uniquely influential to American law.

But it was, whether they they enacted every law or not. They had laws against adultery, working of the sabbath, murder, stealing, even blasphemy.

A History of Blasphemy Laws in the United States

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2023/12/a-...united-states/

Again, tell me why would a Deist god care what laws we enacted?

[whag]

It is a Biblical law.

You: Deists were Christians who advocated stoning homosexuals and forced obeisance to commandment 1.

This is not helping your argument.

It doesn't matter. It only matters that the Founders did use the Ten Commandments, whether in part, or not, doesn't matter.

They used the enlightenment, too. Liberalism was key to the proper execution of a sane society:

Another idea central to American Enlightenment thinking is liberalism, that is, the notion that humans have natural rights and that government authority is not absolute, but based on the will and consent of the governed. Rather than a radical or revolutionary doctrine, liberalism was rooted in the commercial harmony and tolerant Protestantism embraced by merchants in Northern Europe, particularly Holland and England. Liberals favored the interests of the middle class over those of the high-born aristocracy, an outlook of tolerant pluralism that did not discriminate between consumers or citizens based on their race or creed, a legal system devoted to the protection of private property rights, and an ethos of strong individualism over the passive collectivism associated with feudal arrangements. Liberals also preferred rational argumentation and free exchange of ideas to the uncritical of religious doctrine or governmental mandates. In this way, liberal thinking was anti-authoritarian. Although later liberalism became associated with grassroots democracy and a sharp separation of the public and private domains, early liberalism favored a parliamentarian form of government that protected liberty of expression and movement, the right to petition the government, separation of church and state and the confluence of public and private interests in philanthropic and entrepreneurial endeavors.

https://iep.utm.edu/american-enlight...0were%20deists.

But it was, whether they they enacted every law or not. They had laws against adultery, working of the sabbath, murder, stealing, even blasphemy.

Exactly. What the Decalogue advocates should be rejected as a document of legal enforcement.

A History of Blasphemy Laws in the United States

https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2023/12/a-...united-states/

Again, tell me why would a Deist god care what laws we enacted?

Because deists were realistic enough to know Christians rejected the principles of the enlightenment. The deists prevented fundamentalists from making the US a theocratic nation.

[seer]

They used the enlightenment, too. Liberalism was key to the proper execution of a sane society:


Exactly. What the Decalogue advocates should be rejected as a document of legal enforcement.

The whole point was did the The Ten Commandments influence US law. The answer is a resounding yes. just as the Christian religion played the key role in the formation of this nation. As John Adams said.

Because deists were realistic enough to know Christians rejected the principles of the enlightenment. The deists prevented fundamentalists from making the US a theocratic nation.

Why would the Deist god even care about such things? And BTW - you really have only found a few founders who were actually deists. And:

The phrase "Founding Fathers" is a proper noun. It refers to a very specific group of people, the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention. Yes, there were other important players, like Jefferson, whose thinking deeply influenced the shape of our nation and who were not in attendance, but the 55 Fathers make up the core.

The denominational affiliation of these men is a matter of public record. Among the delegates were 28 Episcopalians, 8 Presbyterians, 7 Congregationalists, 2 Lutherans, 2 Dutch Reformed, 2 Methodists, 2 Roman Catholics, 1 unknown and only 3 deists--Williamson, Wilson and Franklin, this at a time when church membership entailed a sworn public confession of biblical faith.(John Eidsmoe, Christianity and the Constitution, (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1987), p. 43.)

[Mountain Man]

It wouldn’t be because they thought Indians would go to hell, that’s for sure.

The more important point is why Christians would be in favor of selective legalism. Deism stood for rational inquiry, skepticism of wild claims, and religious tolerance. It was the only thing that prevented Johnathan Edwards types from commanding government.

Um... okay?

[whag]

The whole point was did the The Ten Commandments influence US law. The answer is a resounding yes. just as the Christian religion played the key role in the formation of this nation. As John Adams said.

Again, this is no reason publicly display this document. There’s no need to bring Islam into math just because the religion helped develop and proliferate the Arabic numeral system. Same deal here.

Why would the Deist god even care about such things? And BTW - you really have only found a few founders who were actually deists. And:

Ask the deists who prevented fundamentalists from turning the nation into a theocracy. That we’re not enforcing 8 of the commandments today tells you all you need to know about their application to American life.