Another University Held Segregated Graduation Celebrations

[rogue06]

There is just as much white culture as black culture. Blacks have multiple cultures too. As do hispanics.

Not according to old Joe. Blacks are a monolithic group who all think alike. That's what he said when he declared

unlike the African American community with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly different attitudes about different things.

His keepers immediately tried to spin that as a misstatement but while they were busy doing that, the codger went and repeated his claim a little later.

[rogue06]

It would be interesting to see just what you consider "recently"

Back on Columbus Day in 1915 Teddy Roosevelt delivered a speech where he said the following:

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

And a few years later in 1919 Woodrow Wilson made a similar remark in a speech speaking in favor of the League of Nations said

Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.

A bit more from Teddy Roosevelt

[carpedm9587]

Interesting you should use that example, as this is exactly one of the big screw-ups of the left, where women can't feel safe in locker rooms or showers because biological males claiming to be women can come in there without restriction

CP, this is just an overblown fear from so many who lean right. Ask yourself a little question: when was the last time that you, or anyone you know, was in the bathroom when a trans person entered? If you have even real one example, did that person do ANYTHING to create an unsafe situation, or did they just go to the bathroom?

The trans population is miniscule. To listen to the outrage, you would think there were trans people bullying there way into every bathroom in America, threatening women and children.

Going forward, the solution is to simply stop separating bathrooms by sex or gender. It takes little additional effort/cost to create bathrooms in which actual toilets and urinals are in small enclosed spaces and sinks/towels are centralized and common. It also takes little extra cost to build unisex, single-toilet/sink rooms. New constuctions and renovations can move in this direction, and the problem will fade over time.

By the way, I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and bet that your wife can tell you what a "woman" is.

I just asked her - and you are right. Her answer was "no." Her explanation was that this is an area where language is in flux and definitions are all over the map.

For myself, I would define the word "woman" as "a person who identifies with the role and psychology traditionally associated with external female genitalia." At this point, that seems to be a definition that would cover pretty much all of the bases.

So if there are people who have experienced racial hatred at the hands of one race or another, why is it not permissible to create safe spaces for them to heal as well?

You REALLY think that's what's going on here? Honest?

I think that having common spaces for people to celebrate things that bond them is perfectly fine. I don't see a problem here.

In the words of that great philosopher / theologian, Rodney King --- "Can't we all just get along"?

The question that comes to mind here is, "why do you think people gathering to celebrate a common bond" is equal to "not getting along?" Are they harming you in doing this? Are they somehow diminishing you? What, exactly, is the harm being done? Do you feel left out? If not, why not just let people gather for whatever reason they want to gather, and go about your business?

[carpedm9587]

Citation, please. Cause I'm not finding that.
And keep in mind that "commencement" and "graduation" are not necessarily the same thing.

Here is one example: https://commencement.columbia.edu/co...ad-celebration

There are many others. What I am finding is that people can sign up for and attended any combination of the main ceremony or affinity graduations as they wish. Some will choose just an affinity graduation. Some will choose several (e.g., a gay child of Latinx and Black parents).

As for the distinction between "graduation" and "commencement," that would seem to me to be a distinction without a purpose. Technically, "graduation" happens the minute someone completes all degree requirements. I graduated with a Master's Degree from the University of Delaware. I never went to a ceremony. "Graduation ceremony" and "commencement" are essentially interchangeable terms.

[carpedm9587]

Nope.

I'm afraid, "yup" is correct. Folks who talk as you are talking here are taking a simple opportunity students are asking for to gather with and celebrate with those they have something in common with as some form of nefarious "us vs. them" travesty. As far as I can tell, unless everyone just does it the way it has always been done: with everyone in big, blended pot, there is something bad happening.

I say, let people do what they want to do, and stop trying to get them to conform to what YOU think they should be doing.

wow

I know! It's amazing, right?

[carpedm9587]

A domestic violence shelter has to be seen as a specific case where people who have experienced violent actions can go when they're facing real threats. I can't speak for all cases, but it's likely that the majority of people in these ceremonies have not experienced violent hate crimes nor are likely to have anybody specifically hunting them down.

Why does the experience have to be of a violent hate crime or someone hunting them down? I used the example of women's shelters as an example of the idea, but a woman's shelter does not require the woman to have experienced extreme violence or abuse. The shelters that I know welcomed ANY woman looking for shelter, for whatever reason. Homeless. Health issues. It was simply a safe place for women - ANY women.

And why is this now a binary discussion? Why can't an affinity celebration serve BOTH purposes. Those who have experiences racism and hostility have a place they can go with those who are like them and feel safe being there. These who have no significant experiences of racism or hostility have a place to go if they just want to gather with people with whom they share a cultural affinity.

I'm not seeing a problem here. I'm seeing a significant reaction - but I cannot find a justification for it.

It would be like using the very specific example of not allowing people to have guns in prison and arguing that people who oppose gun control but who are okay with that are hypocritical.

No. Not exactly. I think you have this impression because you don't understand what women's shelters do, or perhaps you only have exposure to women's shelters that require a women to have been violently abused to gain entry. I have never heard of such a shelter.

[carpedm9587]

There is just as much white culture as black culture. Blacks have multiple cultures too. As do hispanics.

OK, so what do you think are the basic elements of "white culture?" What distinguishes "white culture" from other cultures?

Segregating graduations by race and claiming it is cultural is just as bad as if the whites did it. In fact, when whites did do that, it was called racist and segregationist. But now the minorities do the very same thing and call it "affinity?" Really?

Again, nobody is "segregating" anything. Affinity graduations are open-door events to which anyone can register and people can register for as many as they wish. They do not preclude attendance in the main celebration.

You are trying to paint this as a large party where there are rooms labeled "main," "black," "hispanic," "LGBTQ," "Asian" and people are being forced (i.e., segregated) into whichever room matches their identity. In fact it is a large party where rooms are labeled "main," "black," "hispanic," "LGBTQ," "Asian" and each room is designed by the culture/race it represents and guests can freely flow through any room they wish. It celebrates differences - rather than forcibly separating people by their differences.

Sounds to me like the liberals have become the racists of the modern age and have actually convinced the minorities to go along with it! "No, we are not segregating you! We are allowing you to celebrate your culture by yourselves! Yay!"

No. This is a gross misrepresentation of what Affinity Graduations are about.

[carpedm9587]

It would be interesting to see just what you consider "recently"

Back on Columbus Day in 1915 Teddy Roosevelt delivered a speech where he said the following:

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

And a few years later in 1919 Woodrow Wilson made a similar remark in a speech speaking in favor of the League of Nations said

Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.

Thank you for the education. From this I learn, a) seeing the differences in heritage and culture as a "bad thing" goes back further than I thought, an b) I now know at least one thing I disagree with both TR and WW on.

I have no problem with a "hyphenated american." I thought, for a bit, that we got the hyphen wrong, and even experimented with "American-African" and "American-Irish" and so forth. But then I realized that english normally puts the adjective in front of the noun. It is a "red flower" not a "flower red." It is a "big house," not a "house big." American-African is an African who happens to be an American. African-American is an American who happens to be African. It captures the melting pot (we are all Americans) and the variety (some are of African descent, some of Irish, etc.). Some may not see themselves as anything other than "American," and so be it. No one is required to have a hyphen.

I find myself wondering, no one requires you to have a hyphen if you do not want one. Why are you so opposed to people using a hyphen to capture the nuance of their Americanism? Who, exactly, is trying to control whom here?

[carpedm9587]

So, when the little darlin's graduate, are they gonna try to pull this in the workplace? "Um... we need a separate section of cubicles away from the whites, and.... while we're at it, we need our own restrooms and drinking fountains, too.

It really sounds like the liberals are dragging us back to the past.

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And that's the real issue, isn't it? Fear?

[carpedm9587]

Just wanted to add. There is nothing wrong with celebrating your culture and heritage. But it should be done in a way that shares it with others, not keeps you separate from others. If you are from Mexico, have a Mexican street festival, sharing your culture with everyone else. If you are from Germany, have a beer fest! Share your culture with everyone. Don't separate yourself from other cultures.

So this objection will make sense ONLY if you can find a place where it shows that people who do not identify with a particular affinity are barred from attendance/participation in that affinity. As far as I can tell, affinity celebrations are designed by the members of that group/culture, the ceremony is for anyone who registers, and they can be attended by anyone.

That makes them EXACTLY like your Mexican festival and German beer fest.

[CivilDiscourse]

So this objection will make sense ONLY if you can find a place where it shows that people who do not identify with a particular affinity are barred from attendance/participation in that affinity. As far as I can tell, affinity celebrations are designed by the members of that group/culture, the ceremony is for anyone who registers, and they can be attended by anyone.

That makes them EXACTLY like your Mexican festival and German beer fest.

There's nuance. Looking at U of N, it appears that what's being done is cultural celebrations (i.e. parties) before graduation. I have no major problem with this.

That is different than a university that may be holding actual separate (but equal!) graduations.

Source: https://newsone.com/4590691/affinity-graduations/

Special graduations


When students from historically disadvantaged backgrounds graduate, many want to celebrate the joy they feel after having done what it takes to get through college. Affinity graduations are meant to recognize and celebrate the accomplishments of particular communities that have overcome barriers to graduate from college. These barriers may include racial discrimination or anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric and legislation.

Affinity graduations are optional ceremonies. They take place at colleges and universities throughout the country. For instance, in addition to its main graduation ceremony, Penn State offers a Lavender Graduation for queer and transgender students. It also offers celebrations for Latinx, Black, Indigenous and Asian Pacific Islander Desi American students.

Harvard offers similar race- and ethnicity-based ceremonies. The school also offers a graduation ceremony for students with disabilities. So does California State University, Monterey Bay, which also has one for undocumented students.

© Copyright Original Source

The question there is simply this: Could a person outside of the celebrated group, choose to go to the affinity graduation and walk the stage? If the answer is yes, then I see no problem. If the answer is "No, you have main graduation," then it IS exclusionary, and is segregation.

[Sparko]

So this objection will make sense ONLY if you can find a place where it shows that people who do not identify with a particular affinity are barred from attendance/participation in that affinity. As far as I can tell, affinity celebrations are designed by the members of that group/culture, the ceremony is for anyone who registers, and they can be attended by anyone.

That makes them EXACTLY like your Mexican festival and German beer fest.

They are just for as an example, black students. White students are not allowed to participate. If everyone could participate then it would be a normal inclusive graduation wouldn't it?

[rogue06]

Thank you for the education. From this I learn, a) seeing the differences in heritage and culture as a "bad thing" goes back further than I thought, an b) I now know at least one thing I disagree with both TR and WW on.

I have no problem with a "hyphenated american." I thought, for a bit, that we got the hyphen wrong, and even experimented with "American-African" and "American-Irish" and so forth. But then I realized that english normally puts the adjective in front of the noun. It is a "red flower" not a "flower red." It is a "big house," not a "house big." American-African is an African who happens to be an American. African-American is an American who happens to be African. It captures the melting pot (we are all Americans) and the variety (some are of African descent, some of Irish, etc.). Some may not see themselves as anything other than "American," and so be it. No one is required to have a hyphen.

I find myself wondering, no one requires you to have a hyphen if you do not want one. Why are you so opposed to people using a hyphen to capture the nuance of their Americanism? Who, exactly, is trying to control whom here?

Basically you are asking why was the melting pot concept pushed over one that promoted keeping races, religions and ethnicity separated, in distinct areas. That was, at least how it was understood a century or so ago.

The answer to that can be found in a single word: Balkanization.


Btw, if this is the only thing you've found that you disagree with from Wilson, you really don't know much about him.

[Cow Poke]

And that's the real issue, isn't it? Fear?

I don't think so. I think it's racism.

[tabibito]

Basically you are asking why was the melting pot concept pushed over one that promoted keeping races, religions and ethnicity separated, in distinct areas. That was, at least how it was understood a century or so ago.

Until much less than a hundred years ago:

It was a time when racist terms were not necessarily deemed taboo - depending on context.