Another University Held Segregated Graduation Celebrations

[carpedm9587]

Yes, sir - and this round is the result of rich white liberals constantly making race an issue to the extent that these individuals are duped into focusing on differences rather than "melting pot" concepts. You remember "melting pot", yes?

I do - but even in a melting pot, America has a long history of cultures preserving their cultural heritage. It is why we have American Italians, American Germans, American French, American Africans, etc. The common thread is "America," and we celebrate the things we have in common. But we retain our distinct cultural roots and heritages, and celebrate one another's. It has pretty much always been this way. It is only recently that this is seen as a "bad thing."

Why?

For exactly the reasons I just outlined above: to provide a basis for commonality (the main graduation ceremony) and an opportunity to celebrate and honor differences (the affinity celebrations).

EPCOT - The "Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow --- is that really what we want?

Well - let's remember we're talking a 1970s title here - but yes - basically. The vision of EPCOT was a world community in which cultures were celebrated, co-existed, and were open to anyone to engage, participate, or ignore as they see fit. How is this a bad thing?

So why focus on "differences" rather than "community"?

Why focus on "community" rather than "differences?"

Or better put - why not allow people to focus on BOTH? The problems arise when we either insist on total separation, or total conformance to the "norm." Why not let people be who they are, celebrate the things we have in common, and celebrate the things we have that are different? I personally enjoy going to a Scandinavian cultural festival, a German-themed Octoberfest, a celebration of Indigenous culture (in any land), or a good old fashioned rodeo, carnival, Shakespeare Festival and all the rest. It's fun to see the traditions and culture of other people - and to share mine.

Frankly, I think Americans don't do enough of this. There is a young man I got to know when I did a voluntourism trip to Tanzania some years ago. Now he visits annually and spends some time with my wife and I. Not only do I learn about his culture, but I get to see my own culture through his eyes - and it is sometimes an eye-opening experience.

[carpedm9587]

As a test case, maybe the local Christian fellowships should have their own affinity graduation ceremonies and see how it goes.

Is Christianity a cultural identity, or a religion?

Church/state issues for publicly funded institutions?

I guess I'm not sure about this one. But it's worth asking.

[carpedm9587]

I attended two Christian school graduations last week in which all students participated with not even a hint of "us vs them".

CP- you guys are the ones making it "us vs. them." That is nowhere to be found in the information about "affinity celebrations" that I found. All of it is about celebrating cultural/ethnic/racial differences - not as an antagonism, but as a means of recognizing and respecting them. It is one of the more anti-racist things I've seen.

[carpedm9587]

This whole thing is kind of weird, but what I'm not clear on is whether these are actual ceremonies where someone walks across a stage... or whether they're just dignified graduation parties that exclude whole groups of people. It doesn't sound like they're doing it at the exact same time as the "real" ceremony, at least. But it still feels off to me.

As far as I can tell - there is always a main graduation ceremony, and then these happen afterwards. The exact nature of them seems to vary - an seem to span from repeat ceremonies with a cultural theme to just plain old parties (with a cultural theme).

As for the "off" part - is it at all possible that it feels off because so many people on the right have landed on this as yet another "racially charged, woke" thing? These kids don't seem to be racially charged in the least. They are just celebrating. So why has this been turned into an issue?

[carpedm9587]

It's also happening at a time where there are exclusion zones on campuses (campii?) where whites are not allowed. Coincidence?

Racial Segregation On American Campuses: A Widespread Phenomenon

So, my initial reaction to this is "yuck." For the same reason that I do not like affirmative action, I do not like segregated spaces where one race is denying another entry. I do not think you can defeat racism using racist tactics.

But then my wife asks a question I cannot answer. There are women who have been the victims of domestic violence at the hands of abusive men. There are shelters where these women can go to "feel safe." Men are not allowed in these shelters because the women who live there are traumatized and need space/time to recover. This is pretty widely seen as acceptable. So if there are people who have experienced racial hatred at the hands of one race or another, why is it not permissible to create safe spaces for them to heal as well?

I ask the question without having an answer to it. I recognize the danger such spaces can pose. I have seen (through my wife's eyes) women-only environments transform from "places of healing" to "places for hating men." I have seen (again through my wife's eyes) women-only environments never cross that line. It seems to me that racial safe spaces would run the same risk. But do we tell the traumatized minority, perhaps one even experiencing PTSD from the violence, "just get over yourself and deal with having those who remind you of your trauma in your world?"

[carpedm9587]

OK now imagine a group of white students want to have an "affinity graduation" to celebrate white culture. That would instantly be considered "racist"

Possibly. Perhaps even probably. After all, it was the white race that enslaved black people, the white race that invoked Jim Crow, the white race that fought against civil rights, and the white race that is today fighting against examining our laws and systems for any vestiges of racism and eliminating it. When the "master race" starts sputtering, "but, but...what about me?" eyebrows are justifiably raised.

Unfortunately, history is continuous, and we inherit the mess our forebears created when they engaged in all of the things listed above.

Not to mention that there is no unifying "white culture." White people have multiple cultures, not just one. And we are becoming more and more aware of the fact that we "whites" have lumped hispanics into a single bucket when they too have multiple cultures. The same is true of black people, and pretty much any race.

[Cow Poke]

So, my initial reaction to this is "yuck." For the same reason that I do not like affirmative action, I do not like segregated spaces where one race is denying another entry. I do not think you can defeat racism using racist tactics.

But then my wife asks a question I cannot answer. There are women who have been the victims of domestic violence at the hands of abusive men. There are shelters where these women can go to "feel safe." Men are not allowed in these shelters because the women who live there are traumatized and need space/time to recover. This is pretty widely seen as acceptable.

Interesting you should use that example, as this is exactly one of the big screw-ups of the left, where women can't feel safe in locker rooms or showers because biological males claiming to be women can come in there without restriction

By the way, I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and bet that your wife can tell you what a "woman" is.

So if there are people who have experienced racial hatred at the hands of one race or another, why is it not permissible to create safe spaces for them to heal as well?

You REALLY think that's what's going on here? Honest?

I ask the question without having an answer to it. I recognize the danger such spaces can pose. I have seen (through my wife's eyes) women-only environments transform from "places of healing" to "places for hating men." I have seen (again through my wife's eyes) women-only environments never cross that line. It seems to me that racial safe spaces would run the same risk. But do we tell the traumatized minority, perhaps one even experiencing PTSD from the violence, "just get over yourself and deal with having those who remind you of your trauma in your world?"

In the words of that great philosopher / theologian, Rodney King --- "Can't we all just get along"?

[Cow Poke]

As far as I can tell - there is always a main graduation ceremony, and then these happen afterwards.

Citation, please. Cause I'm not finding that.
And keep in mind that "commencement" and "graduation" are not necessarily the same thing.

[Cow Poke]

CP- you guys are the ones making it "us vs. them."

Nope.

That is nowhere to be found in the information about "affinity celebrations" that I found. All of it is about celebrating cultural/ethnic/racial differences - not as an antagonism, but as a means of recognizing and respecting them. It is one of the more anti-racist things I've seen.

wow

[KingsGambit]

So, my initial reaction to this is "yuck." For the same reason that I do not like affirmative action, I do not like segregated spaces where one race is denying another entry. I do not think you can defeat racism using racist tactics.

But then my wife asks a question I cannot answer. There are women who have been the victims of domestic violence at the hands of abusive men. There are shelters where these women can go to "feel safe." Men are not allowed in these shelters because the women who live there are traumatized and need space/time to recover. This is pretty widely seen as acceptable. So if there are people who have experienced racial hatred at the hands of one race or another, why is it not permissible to create safe spaces for them to heal as well?

I ask the question without having an answer to it. I recognize the danger such spaces can pose. I have seen (through my wife's eyes) women-only environments transform from "places of healing" to "places for hating men." I have seen (again through my wife's eyes) women-only environments never cross that line. It seems to me that racial safe spaces would run the same risk. But do we tell the traumatized minority, perhaps one even experiencing PTSD from the violence, "just get over yourself and deal with having those who remind you of your trauma in your world?"

A domestic violence shelter has to be seen as a specific case where people who have experienced violent actions can go when they're facing real threats. I can't speak for all cases, but it's likely that the majority of people in these ceremonies have not experienced violent hate crimes nor are likely to have anybody specifically hunting them down.

It would be like using the very specific example of not allowing people to have guns in prison and arguing that people who oppose gun control but who are okay with that are hypocritical.

[Sparko]

Possibly. Perhaps even probably. After all, it was the white race that enslaved black people, the white race that invoked Jim Crow, the white race that fought against civil rights, and the white race that is today fighting against examining our laws and systems for any vestiges of racism and eliminating it. When the "master race" starts sputtering, "but, but...what about me?" eyebrows are justifiably raised.

Unfortunately, history is continuous, and we inherit the mess our forebears created when they engaged in all of the things listed above.

Not to mention that there is no unifying "white culture." White people have multiple cultures, not just one. And we are becoming more and more aware of the fact that we "whites" have lumped hispanics into a single bucket when they too have multiple cultures. The same is true of black people, and pretty much any race.

There is just as much white culture as black culture. Blacks have multiple cultures too. As do hispanics. Segregating graduations by race and claiming it is cultural is just as bad as if the whites did it. In fact, when whites did do that, it was called racist and segregationist. But now the minorities do the very same thing and call it "affinity?" Really?

Sounds to me like the liberals have become the racists of the modern age and have actually convinced the minorities to go along with it! "No, we are not segregating you! We are allowing you to celebrate your culture by yourselves! Yay!"

[Cow Poke]

There is just as much white culture as black culture. Blacks have multiple cultures too. As do hispanics. Segregating graduations by race and claiming it is cultural is just as bad as if the whites did it. In fact, when whites did do that, it was called racist and segregationist. But now the minorities do the very same thing and call it "affinity?" Really?

Sounds to me like the liberals have become the racists of the modern age and have actually convinced the minorities to go along with it! "No, we are not segregating you! We are allowing you to celebrate your culture by yourselves! Yay!"

So, when the little darlin's graduate, are they gonna try to pull this in the workplace? "Um... we need a separate section of cubicles away from the whites, and.... while we're at it, we need our own restrooms and drinking fountains, too.

It really sounds like the liberals are dragging us back to the past.

colored only.png

[rogue06]

I do - but even in a melting pot, America has a long history of cultures preserving their cultural heritage. It is why we have American Italians, American Germans, American French, American Africans, etc. The common thread is "America," and we celebrate the things we have in common. But we retain our distinct cultural roots and heritages, and celebrate one another's. It has pretty much always been this way. It is only recently that this is seen as a "bad thing."

It would be interesting to see just what you consider "recently"

Back on Columbus Day in 1915 Teddy Roosevelt delivered a speech where he said the following:

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

And a few years later in 1919 Woodrow Wilson made a similar remark in a speech speaking in favor of the League of Nations said

Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.

[Sparko]

So, when the little darlin's graduate, are they gonna try to pull this in the workplace? "Um... we need a separate section of cubicles away from the whites, and.... while we're at it, we need our own restrooms and drinking fountains, too.

It really sounds like the liberals are dragging us back to the past.

colored only.png

Yeah. It is basically promoting "Apartheid" [Separate but equal ] but this time they have actually convinced the minorities that it is their idea and it is "good"

The KKK must be proud.

The only thing these people are celebrating are our differences, not our similarities.This all started in the 1970's and 80's with "Multiculturalism" - it actually separates us rather than bringing us together.

[Sparko]

Yeah. It is basically promoting "Apartheid" [Separate but equal ] but this time they have actually convinced the minorities that it is their idea and it is "good"

The KKK must be proud.

The only thing these people are celebrating are our differences, not our similarities.This all started in the 1970's and 80's with "Multiculturalism" - it actually separates us rather than bringing us together.

Just wanted to add. There is nothing wrong with celebrating your culture and heritage. But it should be done in a way that shares it with others, not keeps you separate from others. If you are from Mexico, have a Mexican street festival, sharing your culture with everyone else. If you are from Germany, have a beer fest! Share your culture with everyone. Don't separate yourself from other cultures.