White Supremacists protest at UVA

[Starlight]

The current scientific consensus is that race is a social construct because 1. racial categories change based on geographical location and time period and 2. racial categories are incongruous with genetic groups which have little to do with skin color. Yet another way conservatives are anti-science.

I would say the reality is more complicated. There are real genetic differences between people-groups, and in that sense the notion of 'races' seems scientifically backed. There's a good discussion here.

[tabibito]

Oh ok, then it's not an example of the victors rewriting history, you just made that up so you can launch into a completely different topic (also, your analogy is pretty bad, trade embargos are not in the same category as military action whereas a kick in the shin is in the same category as a physical attack)

And "trade embargo" is a euphemism for (or at least includes) "blockade" in this case. OK - not "kicking in the shins", just stealing the lunch money.

[Roy]

so? If I want to discriminate against leprechauns who am I hurting?

Anyone you discriminate against because you think they are a leprechaun even though they aren't.

[Psychic Missile]

I would say the reality is more complicated. There are real genetic differences between people-groups, and in that sense the notion of 'races' seems scientifically backed. There's a good discussion here.

Great article. The problem is that there are so many different angles on genetic variation and racial division that contradict our current social understanding in the US that any classification will end up being arbitrary. You can't tell a scientist "this person is black" and have them understand any biological truths about an individual. Scientific accuracy depends upon more specific descriptors than the race construct allows.

[Sparko]

Great article. The problem is that there are so many different angles on genetic variation and racial division that contradict our current social understanding in the US that any classification will end up being arbitrary. You can't tell a scientist "this person is black" and have them understand any biological truths about an individual. Scientific accuracy depends upon more specific descriptors than the race construct allows.

Great so when a black person complains about my white privilege and demands affirmative action, we can call him delusional because there is no such thing as race and if there is no white race, I can't have white race privilege and we don't have to give the black race any special treatment like affirmative action.

[Adrift]

Great so when a black person complains about my white privilege and demands affirmative action, we can call him delusional because there is no such thing as race and if there is no white race, I can't have white race privilege and we don't have to give the black race any special treatment like affirmative action.

I was listening to NPR the other day and they were discussing a very real problem that was happening in Brazil with Affirmative Action and race. Only a small percentage of Afro-Brazilians are in higher education or have high salary jobs. Affirmative Action seeks to change this, and, they say, have been making inroads in this, but the big problem is that it's really hard to distinguish race in Brazil. There's so much admixture that it's really hard to distinguish someone who is supposed to be "white" from someone who might be considered "black" or mulatto. It's been discovered that a lot of people who the government would not identify as a minority have been tricking the system in order to take advantage of Affirmative Action in order to get accepted into colleges or get jobs. There's also an issue with people who would not consider themselves other than white, who are actually dark enough to legitimately get Affirmative Action assistance. So Brazil has had to create panels of judges to decide if someone is black enough to qualify for Affirmative Action. Candidates are awarded points on a numerical scale for how black they may be. So their skin type may land them on a number 4 or 5, while their hair type might land them a 3, and their skull shape might be another type altogether. There's also the problem with different colored skin types on the same body, so the arms might be a type 5, and the face might be a type 4. The candidates must also pass a cultural test. One candidate on the show described how he had to read about black culture, not in Brazil, but in the US, so that he had some sort of context for the questions he might be asked by the panel.

The whole program was completely surreal to listen to, and NPR didn't seem to indicate that any of this was absurd or crazy at all...that Brazil was just having issues getting their Affirmative Action program to work as it ought to. Very very strange.

[rogue06]

Because, as their comments amply demonstrate, some of those here agree with the attitudes and actions of the torch, shield and gun-wielding right-wingers who demonstrated in Charlottesville.

Looks like the claims by Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe about guns stashed by the white nationalists was "fake news" according to the Virginia State Police.

[rogue06]

Oh - Japan attacked America true enough - just like one school child attacks another that has been kicking him in the shins at every opportunity for the past month or so. (or, in the case of Japan/America, 80 years near about.)

Are you equating the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor with a school child kicking someone in the shins?

[rogue06]

I think you're a bit confused, son. Race is a biological fact. Racism, which is the belief that one set of genetic differences is inherently superior to another set, is a social construct.

Race is an artificial social construct as modern science, especially genetic analysis, has repeatedly demonstrated that the vast majority of variation between humans correlates little, if at all, with racial boundaries and that humans are remarkably homogeneous genetically^[1]. When we apply simple biological methods the fact is that commonly defined racial groups lack clear-cut genetic boundaries. There is no gene or cluster of genes common to all blacks or all whites or all Asians or whatever^[2].

As an example of this, recently the full genomes of two American geneticists of European descent, Craig Venter and James Watson, were compared to that of a Korean scientist, Seong-Jin Kim. The results revealed that Venter and Watson actually shared fewer variations in their genetic sequences than they each shared with Kim.

Finally, if race was truly "real" in the genetic sense, then racial classifications would be consistent across boundaries. For instance, a person who would be categorized as black in the United States could be considered white in Brazil and "colored" in South Africa^[3].









1. And yet the concept of race is so socially ingrained you can still find genetic studies published in major scientific journals where categories like "white" and "black" are being used as biological variables -- although recently efforts are underway to phase them out (see, for instance, Taking race out of human genetics by Yudell et. al. which points to evidence from phylogenetics and population genetics "that racial classifications do not makes sense in terms of genetics.")

2.3. Apparently, under the old apartheid system a person's racial category could change, both socially and legally -- at least according to Trevor Noah, who wrote a book about his experiences as a bi-racial child in South Africa.

[Psychic Missile]

Great so when a black person complains about my white privilege and demands affirmative action, we can call him delusional because there is no such thing as race and if there is no white race, I can't have white race privilege and we don't have to give the black race any special treatment like affirmative action.

Race being a social construct doesn't mean there's no such thing as race. Try thinking about things for more than half a second.

[Sparko]

Race being a social construct doesn't mean there's no such thing as race. Try thinking about things for more than half a second.

sheesh. Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways. Either races are real or they are not. If they are not then people cannot claim they are one race or another. If it is real, then it doesn't matter if it is genetically based or socially based.

[Psychic Missile]

sheesh. Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways. Either races are real or they are not. If they are not then people cannot claim they are one race or another. If it is real, then it doesn't matter if it is genetically based or socially based.

Race is real as a social construct. Social constructs are still things that exist.

The government is a social construct but it still exists. How paradoxical!

It shouldn't be this hard to comprehend.

[Sparko]

Race is real as a social construct. Social constructs are still things that exist.

The government is a social construct but it still exists. How paradoxical!

It shouldn't be this hard to comprehend.

then your earlier objection to seer is nonsensical since you were arguing that race isn't something real but "just a social construct"

No, it isn't. Race is a social construct.

[firstfloor]

Look sharp, here he comes.

Good afternoon Mr President.




We need to fly into Prestwick. Check the weather for over there. Not too much wind and no rain.





What just happened Mike?
Hello, Mr Duke? I have the Vice President on the phone to speak to you. Please hold for a moment.

[Sparko]

Look sharp, here he comes.

Good afternoon Mr President.




We need to fly into Prestwick. Check the weather for over there. Not too much wind and no rain.





What just happened Mike?
Hello, Mr Duke? I have the Vice President on the phone to speak to you. Please hold for a moment.

You should write fanfic. I bet that site that pretends Hillary won the election would hire you.