Principles for POTUS Choice

[JimL]

Sam has mentioned this in other threads and I thought it was worthy of disassembling. Of course, there are varying degrees involved and nuance that can frustrate a clearcut conclusion, but the question is:

Should principle override success when it comes to selecting a POTUS?

I don't know which crimes Trump may be guilty of committing, but the ones being bandied about don't affect me much in my decision to select him as him being the more strong and beneficial president.
Was he unfaithful to his wife? Not a factor.
Did he pay money to hush a mistress? Not a factor.
Did he not give back official documents when ordered to do so? Eh, not really a factor if he's reelected. Those same documents will become his workpapers again (besides, much of this issue is beginning to look like an FBI setup).
Did he threaten Zelensky to withhold aid unless he conducted an investigation into Biden? No, and is ridiculous on the surface of it, since Zelensky could at any moment say "I investigated and everything is fine."
Did he incite a riot/insurrection on J6? If I believed this to be true, then it would qualify as an uncompromising principle. But I find the evidence to be unconvincing. Sloppy, yes. Did he enjoy seeing people supporting him in such a way? I suspect so, which might have caused delay or emphasis on his part to quell it. That being the case, it does not qualify.
So, I wrap all of that up and compare it to Trump's policies while he was POTUS, and I find in favor of him returning to office.

By comparison, I can also say I don't know what crimes Biden may be guilty of committing.
Was he unfaithful to his wife? Not a factor.
Did he not return official documents when he was not authorized to take them in the first place? Not a factor.
Did he lie about not being aware of his son's business dealings in Ukraine and elsewhere? Not a factor.
Did he profit off of his son's business dealings in Ukraine and elsewhere? The evidence is currently unconvincing.
Did he get Shokin fired to assist in his son's business dealings? The jury is still out.

Currently, there is nothing in the above that convinces me that neither candidate cannot be re-elected. (double negative?)

So, it comes down to policy. And that's a no brainer.

Are you a brainwashed cult member, a complete moron, or what I believe it to be, just a Russian mouthpiece?
Anyone who pays attention to the politics as you obviously do and continues to deny that Trump tried in various ways, the last being an insurrection, to overthrow an election and so democracy itself is either dumb as a brick, or they know the truth and for whatever reason they are denying what they know to be true. I don't think you're dumb as a brick, so what's your reason?

[Cow Poke]

Are you a brainwashed cult member, a complete moron, or what I believe it to be, just a Russian mouthpiece?
Anyone who pays attention to the politics as you obviously do and continues to deny that Trump tried in various ways, the last being an insurrection, to overthrow an election and so democracy itself is either dumb as a brick, or they know the truth and for whatever reason they are denying what they know to be true. I don't think you're dumb as a brick, so what's your reason?

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[Sparko]

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Leave him alone! Every village needs an idiot. JimL is Tweb's.

[JimL]

Leave him alone! Every village needs an idiot. JimL is Tweb's.

And unfortunately the tweb village is obviously loaded with them! No, that's just me being nice. Y'all really can't be that dumb, and that you're not makes it even worse.

[Diogenes]

Sam has mentioned this in other threads and I thought it was worthy of disassembling. Of course, there are varying degrees involved and nuance that can frustrate a clearcut conclusion, but the question is:

Should principle override success when it comes to selecting a POTUS?

Given the current state of the DNC, it's a matter of principle to vote ~DNC such that the candidate to choose is the one most likely to achieve ~DNC. Trump is the best candidate to achieve ~DNC. Ergo, vote Trump.


Also, Biden likes to touch children:

[Ronson]

patrick-star-starfish.gif

[JimL]

Given the current state of the DNC, it's a matter of principle to vote ~DNC such that the candidate to choose is the one most likely to achieve ~DNC. Trump is the best candidate to achieve ~DNC. Ergo, vote Trump.


Also, Biden likes to touch children:

The problem with the Trumpster's arguments, not that it matters to them , is that no matter how much they try to falsely demonize Biden, they blind themselves to the truly demonic, the thief, the tax fraud, the philanderer and rapist, the campaign finance fraud, the grifter, and to top it off the fascist wannabe dictator, friend to our authoritarian enemies, and enemy to our democracy, the treasonous ex-president.


Also, Trump lusts for his daughter!!

[Diogenes]

The problem with the Trumpster's arguments, not that it matters to them , is that no matter how much they try to falsely demonize Biden, they blind themselves to the truly demonic, the thief, the tax fraud, the philanderer and rapist, the campaign finance fraud, the grifter, and to top it off the fascist wannabe dictator, friend to our authoritarian enemies, and enemy to our democracy, the treasonous ex-president.

Trump was not convicted of rape nor has he been convicted of treason. He's yet to be convicted of campaign finance fraud and it looks like the walls aren't closing in. Both JFK and Clinton were philanderers. You don't even know what fascism actually is and Biden is much more a threat to democracy. Democrats literally called for the subversion of Congress and EOs are a favorite tool of Dems as well. Biden's son is much more the actual "tax fraud" which I don't even know where that charge comes from as Trump pre-pays taxes. Last I checked, Putin invaded under Obama and Biden. Iirc, Biden was the one was cozy with Xi. Also, Obama was the one who made the nuclear deal with Iran and the Russian Reset and Uranium One were also under Obama All politicians except for Rand Paul and Massie are grifters. You don't even believe in demons. The video speaks for itself and is hardly "false".


At the end of the day, I'm not voting "for Trump", I'm voting against the Left. perhaps you don't understand strategic voting. Maybe if the Left wasn't worse than the GOP or Trump, I'd vote for them.

Also, Trump lusts for his daughter!!

Biden showered with his when she was a minor.

[Cow Poke]

The problem with the Trumpster's arguments, not that it matters to them , is that no matter how much they...

Jim, tip of the week....

We have dealt with your misuse of plurals and possessives, and now you have a possessive plural (as indicated by "they").

So, it would need to be Trumpsters' arguments.

You're welcome.

[Ronson]

Trump was not convicted of rape nor has he been convicted of treason. He's yet to be convicted of campaign finance fraud and it looks like the walls aren't closing in. Both JFK and Clinton were philanderers. You don't even know what fascism actually is and Biden is much more a threat to democracy. Democrats literally called for the subversion of Congress and EOs are a favorite tool of Dems as well. Biden's son is much more the actual "tax fraud" which I don't even know where that charge comes from as Trump pre-pays taxes. Last I checked, Putin invaded under Obama and Biden. Iirc, Biden was the one was cozy with Xi. Also, Obama was the one who made the nuclear deal with Iran and the Russian Reset and Uranium One were also under Obama All politicians except for Rand Paul and Massie are grifters. You don't even believe in demons. The video speaks for itself and is hardly "false".

At the end of the day, I'm not voting "for Trump", I'm voting against the Left. perhaps you don't understand strategic voting. Maybe if the Left wasn't worse than the GOP or Trump, I'd vote for them.

Biden showered with his when she was a minor.

Unfortunately, CNN (and company) have told him how to think. And unless they tell him otherwise, he won't acknowledge anything you've written. Nice dissection, though.

[JimL]

Trump was not convicted of rape nor has he been convicted of treason. He's yet to be convicted of campaign finance fraud and it looks like the walls aren't closing in. Both JFK and Clinton were philanderers. You don't even know what fascism actually is and Biden is much more a threat to democracy. Democrats literally called for the subversion of Congress and EOs are a favorite tool of Dems as well. Biden's son is much more the actual "tax fraud" which I don't even know where that charge comes from as Trump pre-pays taxes. Last I checked, Putin invaded under Obama and Biden. Iirc, Biden was the one was cozy with Xi. Also, Obama was the one who made the nuclear deal with Iran and the Russian Reset and Uranium One were also under Obama All politicians except for Rand Paul and Massie are grifters. You don't even believe in demons. The video speaks for itself and is hardly "false.

Actually yes, Trump was convicted of rape in a civil suit which I believe cost him some 10 million + another 5 or 10 mil. for continuing to lie (which of course is his forte) about it. It is Interesting though how you christians continue to make excuses for him, for it.
And no, though it's your hope he gets away with it, you know as well as everyone else knows that he is guilty of paying hush money to prostitutes and mistresses he had relationships with while his wife was pregnant and then tried to cover his tracks by hiding the payments.It is interesting though how you christians continue to make excuses for him, for it. And btw, what JFK or Clinton did is just another of your excuses for Trump and is irrelevant.
And yes I know what fascism is, what Authoritarianism is, what anti-democracy is and that is who Trump is and to even attempt to equate Biden with Trump as a danger to democracy after what Trump did to overthrow democracy just tells me that you are either completely ignorant or are lying to yourself, to others, or to both.
You'll have to explain to me what EO's are. Hunter Biden has nothing to do with anything and the investigation, the fake, years long investigation came up with nothing and is simply meant confuse fools like yourself who want Biden to be guilty of something so that you can justify your support for the corrupt and treasonous ex-president. The rest of your accusations are just more of the same bs which you Trumpster's throw about in hopes that it sticks, or perhaps in the hopes of convincing yourselves.

At the end of the day, I'm not voting "for Trump", I'm voting against the Left. perhaps you don't understand strategic voting. Maybe if the Left wasn't worse than the GOP or Trump, I'd vote for them.

No, you're voting for Autocracy, for a traitor who you are well aware of the fact that he attempted to overthrow the election, democracy, and the government of the U.S. The first President in history to end the "peaceful transfer of power" that this country and democracy is founded upon. Like I said, you Trumpster's are either lying to yourselves, are complete ignoramuses, or are fully aware of Trumps treasonous acts and are all in, or basically traitors yourselves.

Biden showered with his when she was a minor.

More bs for the thoughtless, dumbed down, easily led dupes to swallow. Have you ever seen actual evidence of that, the diary? No you haven't, because it doesn't exist. All they need do is to feed you the lies and you eat them up without question.

[Diogenes]

Actually yes, Trump was convicted of rape in a civil suit which I believe cost him some 10 million + another 5 or 10 mil. for continuing to lie (which of course is his forte) about it. It is Interesting though how you christians continue to make excuses for him, for it.

First, being found civilly liable is not "convicted" which is a criminal judgement. Second, it was sexual assault, not rape. Third, now that one of the champions of the law is being targeted by the law, he's calling it unconstitutional.

At no point have I made excuses for him.

And no, though it's your hope he gets away with it, you know as well as everyone else knows that he is guilty of paying hush money to prostitutes and mistresses he had relationships with while his wife was pregnant and then tried to cover his tracks by hiding the payments.

I don't care if Trump is found guilty of the misdemeanor charges. [ETA: It looks like the case is crumbling.] Seeing as Trump is not a pastoral candidate, that he had an affair and paid hush money is not as big an issue. Adultery is sin, yes. Would I rather a political candidate be of better character than Trump? Yes. Do I prefer Trump to the alternative? Yes.

It is interesting though how you christians continue to make excuses for him, for it. And btw, what JFK or Clinton did is just another of your excuses for Trump and is irrelevant.

More like pointing out character has never been important before, why start now.

And yes I know what fascism is,

Doubtful.

what Authoritarianism is,

Press X for Doubt.

what anti-democracy is and that is who Trump is and to even attempt to equate Biden with Trump as a danger to democracy after what Trump did to overthrow democracy just tells me that you are either completely ignorant or are lying to yourself, to others, or to both.

The people who suppress the Hunter Biden laptop story are more of an actual threat to democracy. People who called for sweeping legislation to be passed by executive fiat are actual threats to democracy. The pope who abuse the FISA system are actual threats to democracy. The people who used COVID as a state of exception are actual threats to democracy. Jan 6 was a riot, nothing more.

You'll have to explain to me what EO's are.

You don't know the "EOs" is short for "Executive Orders"?

Hunter Biden has nothing to do with anything and the investigation, the fake, years long investigation came up with nothing and is simply meant confuse fools like yourself who want Biden to be guilty of something so that you can justify your support for the corrupt and treasonous ex-president.

You keep using "treasonous" as if you know what it means.

The rest of your accusations are just more of the same bs which you Trumpster's throw about in hopes that it sticks, or perhaps in the hopes of convincing yourselves.

Tell me where the facts hurt you.

No, you're voting for Autocracy,

If I wanted an autocracy, I'd vote for Biden.

for a traitor who you are well aware of the fact that he attempted to overthrow the election, democracy, and the government of the U.S.

Nothing of the sort happened. A "mostly peaceful protest" did happen, but nothing much more.

The first President in history to end the "peaceful transfer of power" that this country and democracy is founded upon.

I'll take things that never happened for $100.

Like I said, you Trumpster's are either lying to yourselves, are complete ignoramuses, or are fully aware of Trumps treasonous acts and are all in, or basically traitors yourselves.

No treason detected.

More bs for the thoughtless, dumbed down, easily led dupes to swallow. Have you ever seen actual evidence of that, the diary? No you haven't, because it doesn't exist. All they need do is to feed you the lies and you eat them up without question.

It existed enough for the FBI to get involved. Are you saying the FBI is untrustworthy?

[JimL]

First, being found civilly liable is not "convicted" which is a criminal judgement. Second, it was sexual assault, not rape. Third, now that one of the champions of the law is being targeted by the law, he's calling it unconstitutional.

Excuses, excuses. And yes it was rape and I'll take the judges word on that over yours. But again, got to love the hypocrisy of christians. It's no wonder people are leaving in droves!

At no point have I made excuses for him.

Lol!! Of course you have, you just did it again in the above. 🤣


[QUOTE]I don't care if Trump is found guilty of the misdemeanor charges.[QUOTE]
You wouldn't care if he were guilty of shooting someone in the middle of 5th Ave.🤣

[ETA: It looks like the case is crumbling.]

🤣 You're dreaming. Not surprising though the way you people, you republicans, you Trumpster's, have a tendency to deny obvious facts when they contradict your beliefs or hopes

Seeing as Trump is not a pastoral candidate, that he had an affair and paid hush money is not as big an issue. Adultery is sin, yes. Would I rather a political candidate be of better character than Trump? Yes. Do I prefer Trump to the alternative? Yes.

You guys are too funny, like Trump, the narcissistic, theiving, grifting, lying, philandering, traitor with 91 felony charges against him and who has already been convicted of charity fraud, his fake college fraud and rape, you claim to be of better character than Biden. If you're not dumb as a brick, you sure make it look as though you are.

More like pointing out character has never been important before, why start now.

Well, I guess what you're saying is that character has never been important to you. Now that makes sense!

The people who suppress the Hunter Biden laptop story are more of an actual threat to democracy.

There is nothing to the Hunter Biden story that has anything to do with the President and you listen to too much fake news.

People who called for sweeping legislation to be passed by executive fiat are actual threats to democracy.

Such as?

The pope who abuse the FISA system are actual threats to democracy. The people who used COVID as a state of exception are actual threats to democracy.

Again you listen to too much fake news or I think more to the point, you spread too much fake news.

Jan 6 was a riot, nothing more.

Yeah right pal. You're not that dumb and that leaves only one alternative.

You don't know the "EOs" is short for "Executive Orders"?

Oh my, no I didn't get it in the context in which you used it. Perhaps if you said it was a favorite of democrat presidents it would have made more sense. Btw, nothing undemocratic about executive orders.

You keep using "treasonous" as if you know what it means.

That's because I do know what it means and Trump, whether he's been charged or not committed treason. I'm sure you understand that as well because I don't believe you to be as dumb as you're portraying yourself to be. The pretense however is a curiousity. 🤫

Tell me where the facts hurt you.

Facts are a bane to Trumpster's, not to me.

If I wanted an autocracy, I'd vote for Biden.

That's bs and you know it!!

Nothing of the sort happened. A "mostly peaceful protest" did happen, but nothing much more.

Still playing dumb I see. Peaceful protest! 🤣. I mean seriously Diogenes, give the pretense a break, nobody is that stupid.

No treason detected.

Oh, treason was detected alright. You'll continue to deny it or lie about it of course, but that again is only because you are either dumb as a brick, you'd have to be, or you're well aware of the treason but are also in total support of it, but could never admit to that of course.

It existed enough for the FBI to get involved. Are you saying the FBI is untrustworthy?

The diary existed, not the "quote" that you falsely spread.

[Cow Poke]

Facts are a bane to Trumpster's, not to me.

Jim, let's try this again....

Let's pretend that "Trumpster" is a word.
Now, if it's more than one Trumpster, you simply add an 's' - and it becomes Trumpsters.
If it's something that a Trumpster owns, you and an apostrophe and an 's', and it becomes Trumpeter's.
Now, it gets kinda complicated, but if there are more than two Trumpters, and you are talking about something they own or have, then it's Trumpters'.

When you're accusing people of being dumber than a brick, it helps not to type dumb stuff.

[JimL]

Jim, let's try this again....

Let's pretend that "Trumpster" is a word.
Now, if it's more than one Trumpster, you simply add an 's' - and it becomes Trumpsters.
If it's something that a Trumpster owns, you and an apostrophe and an 's', and it becomes Trumpeter's.
Now, it gets kinda complicated, but if there are more than two Trumpters, and you are talking about something they own or have, then it's Trumpters'.

When you're accusing people of being dumber than a brick, it helps not to type dumb stuff.

🤪