BOMBSHELL: FBI Staged Fake Photo of Classified Documents for PR Purposes

[RumTumTugger]

Where's the SCIF at Mar-a-Lago?

The complaint here is that classified documents were covered with boldly-labeled cover sheets, not that the documents were initially in one room or box and removed to another before photographing.

-Sam

Sorry Sam I refuse to argue with a straw man of your making. you are misrepresenting what CP is saying about the FBI admitting to mishandling classified documents. No one has to prove any thing the FBI admitted To the mishandling of the evidence it is tainted. The judge now has to figure out what to do with the tainted evidence and if the prosecution still has a case.

[Sam]

Sorry Sam I refuse to argue with a straw man of your making. you are misrepresenting what CP is saying about the FBI admitting to mishandling classified documents. No one has to prove any thing the FBI admitted To the mishandling of the evidence it is tainted. The judge now has to figure out what to do with the tainted evidence and if the prosecution still has a case.

Well, the handling of evidence in Washington DC certainly doesn't impact the collection of evidence in Palm Beach, FL so that's out as an issue here. It may have some value for Trump's defense down the road if the defense can convincingly assert that document order in a particular box is relevant and that order was significantly mismanaged at collection. But that hasn't happened yet.

Here, you're arguing that Trump kept these highly-classified documents in a secure location. Aside from being irrelevant (he didn't have a right to possess the documents at all), there is nothing to suggest, from this photo or otherwise, that documents were moved from one room to another during collection before being identified.

So we've got a series of non sequiturs in service of a predetermined conclusion. Personally, I doubt even Judge Cannon is going to go for that when and if these matters come to a point of ruling and I've yet to see anyone even try to explain why the preservation of document order, in this case, is important.

In the Hur investigation of Biden, document order actually was important to Hur's case, as he alleged that Biden personally curated the contents of containers. No one here has yet complained that Hur's team mishandling the order in those containers invalidates the investigation, let alone proves that the investigation was a frame-up. In the Mar-a-Lago case, document order isn't nearly as important, as the prosecution only needs to show that Trump possessed these documents, knew of their existence at Mar-a-Lago, and refused to return them.

-Sam

[Cow Poke]

Well, the handling of evidence in Washington DC certainly doesn't impact the collection of evidence in Palm Beach, FL so that's out as an issue here.....

"Chain of Evidence" is a crucial component, Sam.

[Sam]

"Chain of Evidence" is a crucial component, Sam.

There isn't a chain of evidence problem here if the allegation is that documents within a given box were not maintained in order unless that order is significant to the prosecution's case. Just saying "Chain of Evidence" won't cut it. If documents were to show up that weren't included in the initial cataloging, that'd be a chain of evidence problem. If documents were to go missing, that'd be a problem for those documents.

But you can't just say "Chain of Evidence" and have it mean something it doesn't. There have not been allegations that the documents were handled by anyone outside the recorded chain of custody.

-Sam

[Cow Poke]

There isn't a chain of evidence problem here....

You are absolutely right Saint Sam.png

[Mountain Man]

"Chain of Evidence" is a crucial component, Sam.

As much as Sam wants to insist otherwise, provenance matters.

[Cow Poke]

First off, I should have said "Chain of Custody", which is the more proper description of the problem (I'm multi-tasking way too much).
There is a reason that collected evidence is documented every time it changes hands, locations, who is involved, who witnessed....

FBI Bungling May Collapse Mar-a-Lago Case Against Trump

It should be noted that neither the indictment nor the government’s filing back-up Bump’s claim that Trump staff packed the GSA documents and sent them to former President Trump. If the government could prove the Trump people packed up the GSA boxes, it might have been claimed in either the indictment or this filing. Further, we have the additional complication that somebody repacked four pallets of these documents for shipping. Those people may need to be tracked down to nail down the chain of custody. Again, with the FBI’s history of framing people to get Trump, every gap in the chain of custody looks suspicious.

At best, the government is going to have to waste valuable resources rehabilitating the compromised chain of evidence and explaining why its lapses don’t sink the case. Short of that, the case may just have disintegrated.

Evidence is best collected, SEALED, and preserved intact for trial.

[Cow Poke]

As much as Sam wants to insist otherwise, provenance matters.

There are SO MANY things that can go wrong when evidence is improperly collected and/or improperly stored or handled. Lawyers are always looking for gaps in the chain of custody, and when they find even the semblance of a gap, it compromises the prosecution.

[Sparko]

"chain of custody" or "chain of custody of evidence"

[Cow Poke]

"chain of custody" or "chain of custody of evidence"

yes

[Sparko]

First off, I should have said "Chain of Custody", which is the more proper description of the problem (I'm multi-tasking way too much).
There is a reason that collected evidence is documented every time it changes hands, locations, who is involved, who witnessed....

FBI Bungling May Collapse Mar-a-Lago Case Against Trump

It should be noted that neither the indictment nor the government’s filing back-up Bump’s claim that Trump staff packed the GSA documents and sent them to former President Trump. If the government could prove the Trump people packed up the GSA boxes, it might have been claimed in either the indictment or this filing. Further, we have the additional complication that somebody repacked four pallets of these documents for shipping. Those people may need to be tracked down to nail down the chain of custody. Again, with the FBI’s history of framing people to get Trump, every gap in the chain of custody looks suspicious.

At best, the government is going to have to waste valuable resources rehabilitating the compromised chain of evidence and explaining why its lapses don’t sink the case. Short of that, the case may just have disintegrated.

Evidence is best collected, SEALED, and preserved intact for trial.

I think that they noticed that there was something wrong with the order of documents is enough to have an investigation. It doesn't mean anything was done improperly though. For example they had to scan the documents in the boxes. they might have put them back in the box out of order when doing so. But if they find documents missing or added, that would be a problem.

[Cow Poke]

I think that they noticed that there was something wrong with the order of documents is enough to have an investigation. It doesn't mean anything was done improperly though. For example they had to scan the documents in the boxes. they might have put them back in the box out of order when doing so. But if they find documents missing or added, that would be a problem.

But, if I remember correctly, and I'm paraphrasing here, I thought they had already denied they did something like that 'way back when'. Now, IF they can show a "continuity of chain of evidence" record (which is what we used way back in my day) to show what was done and by whom, it's not as big a problem.

[Sparko]

First off, I should have said "Chain of Custody", which is the more proper description of the problem (I'm multi-tasking way too much).
There is a reason that collected evidence is documented every time it changes hands, locations, who is involved, who witnessed....

FBI Bungling May Collapse Mar-a-Lago Case Against Trump

It should be noted that neither the indictment nor the government’s filing back-up Bump’s claim that Trump staff packed the GSA documents and sent them to former President Trump. If the government could prove the Trump people packed up the GSA boxes, it might have been claimed in either the indictment or this filing. Further, we have the additional complication that somebody repacked four pallets of these documents for shipping. Those people may need to be tracked down to nail down the chain of custody. Again, with the FBI’s history of framing people to get Trump, every gap in the chain of custody looks suspicious.

At best, the government is going to have to waste valuable resources rehabilitating the compromised chain of evidence and explaining why its lapses don’t sink the case. Short of that, the case may just have disintegrated.

Evidence is best collected, SEALED, and preserved intact for trial.

Well in cases where documents are evidence, they need to be reviewed to see what is incriminating or relevant and what is not. That means handling the documents, at least to scan them. Then the scanned docs are loaded into a database and filtered, sorted, reviewed and tagged. That is actually what I do at the law firm I work at.

[seer]

I think that they noticed that there was something wrong with the order of documents is enough to have an investigation. It doesn't mean anything was done improperly though. For example they had to scan the documents in the boxes. they might have put them back in the box out of order when doing so. But if they find documents missing or added, that would be a problem.

as long as it is pushed back until after the election...

[Cow Poke]

Well in cases where documents are evidence, they need to be reviewed to see what is incriminating or relevant and what is not. That means handling the documents, at least to scan them. Then the scanned docs are loaded into a database and filtered, sorted, reviewed and tagged. That is actually what I do at the law firm I work at.

Remember, I was a cop when I was a baby, nearly 100 years ago, so I'm not nearly the expert on evidence (and how it is scanned and processed today) that Sam is.