DJT and TDS

[Ronson]

Certainly, there can be no other rational explanation than electoral fraud for why one candidate hosted small campaign events in 2020, a year definitely not known for introducing a novel and highly contagious virus lacking vaccines or even effective treatments for most of the year.

It is a culmination of things. I personally liked the "not suitcases" that were "not hidden" under the floor-length tablecloths, and only pulled out after most of the observers had left. That, combined with the overnight swing count from a Trump victory to Biden victory. One thing that was never explained to me is why a "transparent" election center would cover their tables at all - especially all the way to the floor.

Personally, my conclusion is that there wasn't enough proven shenanigans to affect the election. But I also concluded there were shenanigans.

tablecloth.jpg

[Sam]

That's one rationalization, but certainly this "novel and highly contagious virus lacking vaccines or even effective treatments for most of the year" didn't stop liberals from enthusiastically rioting by the thousands throughout 2020, but they just couldn't muster up that same enthusiasm to go see Joe give a speech in a Walmart parking lot.

Another one is, "Nobody liked Joe, but they liked President Trump even less," which, again, doesn't pass the smell test.

Gotta have a good sniffer to administer a proper smell test.

Source: Fact check: Crowd size at Trump and Biden events reflect campaign strategy, not support. Reuters. 2020.10.30

The comparison of these images is misleading because it does not consider the candidates’ different approaches to campaigning during the pandemic.
Biden has criticized Trump for holding campaign events that put people at risk of contracting the coronavirus, which as of Oct.30, has led to 228,885 deaths in the United States (here; , a live tracker is visible here; ).

As thousands have crowded together at recent rallies held by the president, Biden’s campaign events have introduced social distancing measures and a limited capacity.

In Tampa, for instance, Biden held a drive-in event where attendees remained in their cars (here).

The contrast between Trump and Biden’s campaign events can be seen in various photographs (here).

Reuters has fact-checked other social media posts which implied low support for Biden but ignored that the small gatherings were intentional, to limit the spread of COVID-19 here and here.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: Candidate Favorable Ratings Up Over 2016, but Still Low. Lydia Saad. Gallup. 2020.10.22

Former Vice President Joe Biden leads President Donald Trump 54% to 47% in Gallup's historical "scalometer" measure of candidate favorability. Trump's 2020 rating on the zero to 10 scale is better than the all-time low 36% he received in 2016, and Biden's rating exceeds Hillary Clinton's 47% that year. Nevertheless, the 2020 ratings are among the lowest in Gallup's trends since 1956.

© Copyright Original Source

Emphasis added to point out that a majority of respondents can't be considered "nobody".

-Sam

[Sam]

It is a culmination of things. I personally liked the "not suitcases" that were "not hidden" under the floor-length tablecloths, and only pulled out after most of the observers had left. That, combined with the overnight swing count from a Trump victory to Biden victory. One thing that was never explained to me is why a "transparent" election center would cover their tables at all - especially all the way to the floor.

Personally, my conclusion is that there wasn't enough proven shenanigans to affect the election. But I also concluded there were shenanigans.

tablecloth.jpg

Old conspiracies never die;

Source: Georgia election officials show frame-by-frame what happened in Fulton surveillance video. Justin Gray. WSB-TV. 2020.12.04

For the third time, counties across Georgia have certified votes from November’s presidential election.

The outcome is not expected to change, but legal challenges are still underway.

One involves a video from State Farm Arena that has since gone viral. President Trump’s lawyers and other supporters call it the smoking gun, proving election fraud.

Channel 2 investigative reporter Justin Gray spent the day with Georgia election officials, going through the video frame-by-frame to show everyone what really happened.

Gray looked not at just the short clip the Trump campaign shared, but the critical hours before and after that clip as well.

State election investigators have already spent hours analyzing the video showing what Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani said was suitcases being pulled from under a table.

They were, in fact, official, sealed ballot containers.

“We can show exactly when they were placed in there,” lead investigator Frances Watson said.

Watson said they weren’t mystery ballots that came from a mystery location.

Video taken hours before shows the table being brought into the room at 8:22 a.m. Nothing was underneath the table then.

At 10 p.m., with the room full of people, including official monitors and the media, video shows ballots that had already been opened but not counted placed in the boxes, sealed up and stored under the table.

The reason? Employees thought they were done for the night.

“They were closing things up and getting ready to leave,” Watson said.

Here’s where the confusion comes in:

Media and observers left as employees packed up. But Fulton’s election director called a supervisor at State Farm a few minutes later, telling them to keep counting after the Secretary of State’s office called and said they shouldn’t stop counting for the night so early.

After that call, employees pulled the containers of ballots back out and went back to work.

© Copyright Original Source

they barely even get repackaged over time.

Source: State Election Board Clears Fulton County “Ballot Suitcase” Investigation; Report Finds No Evidence of Conspiracy, No Fraud. Georgia Secretary of State. 2023.06.20

On Tuesday, the State Election Board dismissed case SEB2020-059, a long-running investigation into alleged malfeasance during the 2020 election at the State Farm Arena in Atlanta. Over the course of the investigation, it was confirmed that numerous allegations made against the Fulton County Department of Registration and Elections, and specifically, two election workers, were false and unsubstantiated.

“We remain diligent and dedicated to looking into real claims of voter fraud,” said Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. “We are glad the state election board finally put this issue to rest. False claims and knowingly false allegations made against these election workers have done tremendous harm. Election workers deserve our praise for being on the front lines.”

The investigation, which included Secretary of State Investigators, and Special Agents with both GBI and FBI revealed “there was no evidence of any type of fraud as alleged.” Through the course of the investigation, “three law enforcement agencies reviewed the entire unedited video footage of the events in question surrounding [the two election workers] at State Farm Arena,” and additionally, reviewed social media posts allegedly made by a Fulton County election worker stating they engaged in election fraud, which was found to created by a third party who “admitted he created a fake account and confirmed the content that was posted on the account was fake.” Ultimately, “all allegations made against [the two election workers] were unsubstantiated and found to have no merit.”

State Election Board Member Ed Lindsey requested a letter sent to the two election workers, “because of what [these election workers] have gone through with certain false claims, I’d like to ask that [the state election board] writes a letter affirmatively telling them that the matter has been dismissed.”

Last year, One America News Network agreed to settle a lawsuit brought by the two workers accused of malfeasance, paying a settlement and issuing an on-air retraction of the allegations they amplified. A defamation claim against Rudy Giuliani, who initially aired these claims before the Georgia Senate, is still pending in court.

The full investigative report can be found here.

© Copyright Original Source

-Sam

[Ronson]

Gotta have a good sniffer to administer a proper smell test.

Source: Fact check: Crowd size at Trump and Biden events reflect campaign strategy, not support. Reuters. 2020.10.30

The comparison of these images is misleading because it does not consider the candidates’ different approaches to campaigning during the pandemic.
Biden has criticized Trump for holding campaign events that put people at risk of contracting the coronavirus, which as of Oct.30, has led to 228,885 deaths in the United States (here; , a live tracker is visible here; ).

As thousands have crowded together at recent rallies held by the president, Biden’s campaign events have introduced social distancing measures and a limited capacity.

In Tampa, for instance, Biden held a drive-in event where attendees remained in their cars (here).

The contrast between Trump and Biden’s campaign events can be seen in various photographs (here).

Reuters has fact-checked other social media posts which implied low support for Biden but ignored that the small gatherings were intentional, to limit the spread of COVID-19 here and here.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: Candidate Favorable Ratings Up Over 2016, but Still Low. Lydia Saad. Gallup. 2020.10.22

Former Vice President Joe Biden leads President Donald Trump 54% to 47% in Gallup's historical "scalometer" measure of candidate favorability. Trump's 2020 rating on the zero to 10 scale is better than the all-time low 36% he received in 2016, and Biden's rating exceeds Hillary Clinton's 47% that year. Nevertheless, the 2020 ratings are among the lowest in Gallup's trends since 1956.

© Copyright Original Source

Emphasis added to point out that a majority of respondents can't be considered "nobody".

The Reuters links no longer work.

The Reuters fact-check on "campaign strategy" is simply a defense of Biden. I haven't seen any news stories about people that wanted to attend Biden rallies but were turned away. So, how did Biden organize these tiny rally numbers? By invitation to reporters only? How does that prove large numbers of people (comparable to Trump's rallies) wanted to attend but were unable? Granted, he's had better attendance this year, but still not comparable to Trump's.

[Ronson]

Old conspiracies never die;

Source: Georgia election officials show frame-by-frame what happened in Fulton surveillance video. Justin Gray. WSB-TV. 2020.12.04

For the third time, counties across Georgia have certified votes from November’s presidential election.

The outcome is not expected to change, but legal challenges are still underway.

One involves a video from State Farm Arena that has since gone viral. President Trump’s lawyers and other supporters call it the smoking gun, proving election fraud.

Channel 2 investigative reporter Justin Gray spent the day with Georgia election officials, going through the video frame-by-frame to show everyone what really happened.

Gray looked not at just the short clip the Trump campaign shared, but the critical hours before and after that clip as well.

State election investigators have already spent hours analyzing the video showing what Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani said was suitcases being pulled from under a table.

They were, in fact, official, sealed ballot containers.

“We can show exactly when they were placed in there,” lead investigator Frances Watson said.

Watson said they weren’t mystery ballots that came from a mystery location.

Video taken hours before shows the table being brought into the room at 8:22 a.m. Nothing was underneath the table then.

At 10 p.m., with the room full of people, including official monitors and the media, video shows ballots that had already been opened but not counted placed in the boxes, sealed up and stored under the table.

The reason? Employees thought they were done for the night.

“They were closing things up and getting ready to leave,” Watson said.

Here’s where the confusion comes in:

Media and observers left as employees packed up. But Fulton’s election director called a supervisor at State Farm a few minutes later, telling them to keep counting after the Secretary of State’s office called and said they shouldn’t stop counting for the night so early.

After that call, employees pulled the containers of ballots back out and went back to work.

© Copyright Original Source

they barely even get repackaged over time.

Source: State Election Board Clears Fulton County “Ballot Suitcase” Investigation; Report Finds No Evidence of Conspiracy, No Fraud. Georgia Secretary of State. 2023.06.20

On Tuesday, the State Election Board dismissed case SEB2020-059, a long-running investigation into alleged malfeasance during the 2020 election at the State Farm Arena in Atlanta. Over the course of the investigation, it was confirmed that numerous allegations made against the Fulton County Department of Registration and Elections, and specifically, two election workers, were false and unsubstantiated.

“We remain diligent and dedicated to looking into real claims of voter fraud,” said Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. “We are glad the state election board finally put this issue to rest. False claims and knowingly false allegations made against these election workers have done tremendous harm. Election workers deserve our praise for being on the front lines.”

The investigation, which included Secretary of State Investigators, and Special Agents with both GBI and FBI revealed “there was no evidence of any type of fraud as alleged.” Through the course of the investigation, “three law enforcement agencies reviewed the entire unedited video footage of the events in question surrounding [the two election workers] at State Farm Arena,” and additionally, reviewed social media posts allegedly made by a Fulton County election worker stating they engaged in election fraud, which was found to created by a third party who “admitted he created a fake account and confirmed the content that was posted on the account was fake.” Ultimately, “all allegations made against [the two election workers] were unsubstantiated and found to have no merit.”

State Election Board Member Ed Lindsey requested a letter sent to the two election workers, “because of what [these election workers] have gone through with certain false claims, I’d like to ask that [the state election board] writes a letter affirmatively telling them that the matter has been dismissed.”

Last year, One America News Network agreed to settle a lawsuit brought by the two workers accused of malfeasance, paying a settlement and issuing an on-air retraction of the allegations they amplified. A defamation claim against Rudy Giuliani, who initially aired these claims before the Georgia Senate, is still pending in court.

The full investigative report can be found here.

© Copyright Original Source

Hurling irrelevant elephants? How does any of that answer my question about the necessity of floor-length tablecloths?

[Ronson]

Hurling irrelevant elephants? How does any of that answer my question about the necessity of floor-length tablecloths?

Answering my own post, I was expecting an answer like "Some women came in short skirts, and they wanted to protect their crotch privacy from voyeurs across the room." Or maybe "Thick, black, long tablecloths are fashionable right now." My answer is "They were nice for hiding containers that we didn't want observers to see and ask about." That makes the most sense.

[Sam]

Hurling irrelevant elephants? How does any of that answer my question about the necessity of floor-length tablecloths?

You're trying to maintain a conclusionary attitude about election "shenanigans" using, as an example, a conspiracy theory that was not only debunked frame-by-frame at the time but was subject to a full investigation that found absolutely no basis for the allegation of electoral fraud. Lacking substance, your example falls to rest on a trivial complaint regarding tablecloth length.

If you're going to base a conclusion about election shenanigans on tablecloth length, knowing full well that the underlying insinuation was and is without evidence or merit, then you're going to find absolutely anything, however insignificant, upon which to base similar conclusions in the future, when necessary.

When the allegation has been proven false, you reevaluate your priors; you don't go around searching for some desperate way to keep them intact.

-Sam

[Ronson]

You're trying to maintain a conclusionary attitude about election "shenanigans" using, as an example, a conspiracy theory that was not only debunked frame-by-frame at the time but was subject to a full investigation that found absolutely no basis for the allegation of electoral fraud. Lacking substance, your example falls to rest on a trivial complaint regarding tablecloth length.

Debunked to your satisfaction, not mine. This is a case of "don't believe your lying eyes." The ballot counters just happened to leave early (convenient) and the observers just happened to follow them out the door (convenient) and then the ballot counters just happened to be called back (convenient) but not the observers (convenient) at which time they reached under the forever-unexplained floor-length black tablecloths to retrieve "legitimate" ballot containers. All a very, very convenient explanation for what I call "shenanigans."

If you're going to base a conclusion about election shenanigans on tablecloth length, knowing full well that the underlying insinuation was and is without evidence or merit, then you're going to find absolutely anything, however insignificant, upon which to base similar conclusions in the future, when necessary.

When the allegation has been proven false, you reevaluate your priors; you don't go around searching for some desperate way to keep them intact.

When I see suspicious item(s) in a room - a room that should have been fully transparent and understood - and there is no explanation, my doubt will remain. If there was a gun found in the room, I would demand some justification for that, and not accept a hand-waved explanation that "it doesn't matter because all the other weird happenings have an explanation."

[Mountain Man]

Gotta have a good sniffer to administer a proper smell test.

Source: Fact check: Crowd size at Trump and Biden events reflect campaign strategy, not support. Reuters. 2020.10.30

The comparison of these images is misleading because it does not consider the candidates’ different approaches to campaigning during the pandemic.
Biden has criticized Trump for holding campaign events that put people at risk of contracting the coronavirus, which as of Oct.30, has led to 228,885 deaths in the United States (here; , a live tracker is visible here; ).

As thousands have crowded together at recent rallies held by the president, Biden’s campaign events have introduced social distancing measures and a limited capacity.

In Tampa, for instance, Biden held a drive-in event where attendees remained in their cars (here).

The contrast between Trump and Biden’s campaign events can be seen in various photographs (here).

Reuters has fact-checked other social media posts which implied low support for Biden but ignored that the small gatherings were intentional, to limit the spread of COVID-19 here and here.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: Candidate Favorable Ratings Up Over 2016, but Still Low. Lydia Saad. Gallup. 2020.10.22

Former Vice President Joe Biden leads President Donald Trump 54% to 47% in Gallup's historical "scalometer" measure of candidate favorability. Trump's 2020 rating on the zero to 10 scale is better than the all-time low 36% he received in 2016, and Biden's rating exceeds Hillary Clinton's 47% that year. Nevertheless, the 2020 ratings are among the lowest in Gallup's trends since 1956.

© Copyright Original Source

Emphasis added to point out that a majority of respondents can't be considered "nobody".

-Sam

Yes, I already noted I was familiar with that rationalization.

[Mountain Man]

Hurling irrelevant elephants? How does any of that answer my question about the necessity of floor-length tablecloths?

Or why vote counters only produced those hidden boxes of ballots after tricking the official observers into leaving?

[Sam]

Debunked to your satisfaction, not mine. This is a case of "don't believe your lying eyes." The ballot counters just happened to leave early (convenient) and the observers just happened to follow them out the door (convenient) and then the ballot counters just happened to be called back (convenient) but not the observers (convenient) at which time they reached under the forever-unexplained floor-length black tablecloths to retrieve "legitimate" ballot containers. All a very, very convenient explanation for what I call "shenanigans."



When I see suspicious item(s) in a room - a room that should have been fully transparent and understood - and there is no explanation, my doubt will remain. If there was a gun found in the room, I would demand some justification for that, and not accept a hand-waved explanation that "it doesn't matter because all the other weird happenings have an explanation."

If a frame-by-frame video debunking and a full state investigation with detailed play-by-play answers to your ostensibly genuine questions doesn't satisfy your standard of evidence then the problem is clearly with your motivated reasoning, as you could not possibly ask for better, more definitive falsification.

As I wrote earlier, you're refusing to reevaluate your priors and instead falling back to already-rebutted insinuations and meaningless complaints about tablecloths.

-Sam

[Ronson]

If a frame-by-frame video debunking and a full state investigation with detailed play-by-play answers to your ostensibly genuine questions doesn't satisfy your standard of evidence then the problem is clearly with your motivated reasoning, as you could not possibly ask for better, more definitive falsification.

As I wrote earlier, you're refusing to reevaluate your priors and instead falling back to already-rebutted insinuations and meaningless complaints about tablecloths.

I watched a play-by-play debunking by Johnnie Cochran as to how OJ Simpson could not possibly be guilty of murdering his ex wife. And a jury agreed with him. I did not and do not agree. I looked at the evidence for myself and came to my own conclusion. I realize that you wouldn't dare ever question authority and their conclusions, but I will when their conclusions do not add up.

[Ronson]

Or why vote counters only produced those hidden boxes of ballots after tricking the official observers into leaving?

Agreed. It is the combination of irregularities that strain credulity. If only one, or even two, then it might be believable. But don't ask us to buy a whole basketful and claim the planets were in alignment that night.

And you and I know that if everything was switched between Trump and Biden, then the Left would be howling about a rigged election and investigation.

[Sam]

I watched a play-by-play debunking by Johnnie Cochran as to how OJ Simpson could not possibly be guilty of murdering his ex wife. And a jury agreed with him. I did not and do not agree. I looked at the evidence for myself and came to my own conclusion. I realize that you wouldn't dare ever question authority and their conclusions, but I will when their conclusions do not add up.

I'm sorry but the proper analogy here would be you concluding that Simpson did not kill Nichole Brown despite having access to video footage that he did. In both cases, you would be adhering to a conclusion in spite of clear video evidence to the contrary.

If you want to allege electoral shenanigans in the face of detailed video evidence to the contrary, you can't rest your case on vague impressions and recollections. You have to make a case for how your conclusion is reasonably possible in conjunction with the available evidence.

Your own conclusions, detached from such obligation to empiricism, aren't worth more just because they're your own. They're worth less, on the principle that you're less perceptive of your own biases and how they affect your reasoning.

-Sam

[Ronson]

I'm sorry but the proper analogy here would be you concluding that Simpson did not kill Nichole Brown despite having access to video footage that he did. In both cases, you would be adhering to a conclusion in spite of clear video evidence to the contrary.

No. The analogy is that I found the official verdict to be unreasonable based on the evidence presented. The partisan investigation can point to a square video frame and claim it is round many times over, but my lying eyes tell me differently.

If you want to allege electoral shenanigans in the face of detailed video evidence to the contrary, you can't rest your case on vague impressions and recollections. You have to make a case for how your conclusion is reasonably possible in conjunction with the available evidence.

Your own conclusions, detached from such obligation to empiricism, aren't worth more just because they're your own. They're worth less, on the principle that you're less perceptive of your own biases and how they affect your reasoning.

Do you believe OJ Simpson killed his wife? He was officially found not guilty.