Originally posted by whag
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Kevin O’ Leary Advocates Billionaire Anarchy
Collapse
X
-
- 2 likes
-
Originally posted by Sparko View Post
If it continues, NY City will become like Detroit.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
Comment
-
Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
Only in your cartoon charicature. He says it's part of the haggling and negotiating with investors and banks. On the show he's acting as the investor, so of course he's going to be very skeptical of self evaluations... Which is exactly in line with what he says about how banks and investors act...
Then I wanna move onto undervaluation for tax purposes, unless you think he was wrong there.
Comment
-
Originally posted by whag View Post
Thanks for admitting capitalism requires deep circumvention of the law to thrive. That’s what we lefties have been saying all along.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostNot deception. Delusion mostly. Or way too much optimism in future profit (which doesn't count when valuating a company now). The point is, nobody is breaking any laws or committing any fraud. It is just negotiating and haggling.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by whag View Post
No need to caricature a game show. If banks rebuke property owners for blatantly overvaluating their property by 80%, that would make sense. Are you saying that’s what happens, or is no rebuke issued to the flagrant overvaluater for inflating their property value flagrantly?
Then I wanna move onto undervaluation for tax purposes, unless you think he was wrong there.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by whag View Post
Where's the correction? He literally doesn't answer her question:
But on the second point, wouldn’t there be many companies who would not want to do business or loan money to people like yourself or investors if they know that they can get away with fraud and there’s no recourse to protect them?
O’Leary: Excuse me. What fraud? This is not about Trump anymore. When you get a developer that builds a building and he says it’s worth $400 million, and he wants to borrow 200 million from a bank, which happens every day everywhere on Earth, including every American city, every developer is an entrepreneur. They shine the light on their building and they say it’s worth 400. The bank does its own due diligence, as was done in this case, because they’re very good at it, the banks are very good, and they say, no, it’s worth 300. We’re only going to loan you 150 million. That haggling has gone on for decades. That’s how it works
Instead, he demonstrates he doesn't know the facts of the case:
tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf (ny.gov)
Here's a random one:
Seven Springs, Westchester County, NY Mr. Trump purchased this 212-acre estate in 1995 for $7.5 million. His son, Eric Trump, took the lead on issues related to the property and even lived there for a time. The property was valued at up to $291 million in the statements from 2011 to 2021 based on the contention that the property was zoned for nine mansions and that the Trump Organization had approvals to develop seven mansions that would net a $161 million profit. However, these values were a fiction, totally unsupported by the development history of the property and contradicted by every professional valuation done on the property. The valuation of the mansions also conflicted with limits imposed by the Town of New Bedford on how the property could be developed. Furthermore, while using the supposed future mansions as part of the value, Eric Trump was simultaneously working to complete a conservation easement donation to receive a federal tax deduction for giving up certain development rights. This easement donation was a recognition that the Trump Organization would never be able to develop the property for anything close to a $161 million profit.
In 2016, the Trump Organization received an appraisal valuing the property at $56.5 million. The subsequent statement was changed to disguise what would have appeared as an 80% drop in value for Seven Springs by moving the property into an “other assets” bucket without being itemized and lumping its value together with Mr. Trump’s triplex apartment, which had significantly jumped in value.
We know O'Leary hasn't read the case because he would have used an example of 80 percent overvaluation. The estimate field isn't there to negotiate the difference between $291M and $8M.
Excuse me. What fraud? This is not about Trump anymore. When you get a developer that builds a building and he says it’s worth $400 million, and he wants to borrow 200 million from a bank, which happens every day everywhere on Earth, including every American city, every developer is an entrepreneur. They shine the light on their building and they say it’s worth 400. The bank does its own due diligence, as was done in this case, because they’re very good at it, the banks are very good, and they say, no, it’s worth 300. We’re only going to loan you 150 million. That haggling has gone on for decades. That’s how it works
Comment
-
Originally posted by whag View Post
Consistency would be lauding contestants with good business sense, not correcting them for trying to defraud him.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View Post
O'Leary was responding to the show's bullet list that you posted in the OP. You claimed he was saying every business "commits fraud" - but that is not what he was saying.
He was saying that every business will puff up their valuation and that it's not fraud. That is just how negotiations go. He was not saying every business commits fraud. He was talking about the process, not Trump.
If all Trump did was say "My property is worth 2X dollars" when it was actually worth X dollars, that would not have been fraud.
But when he says, "I hired a professional appraiser, who found that my property is worth 2X dollars" when he either did not hire an appraiser, or the appraiser found that his property was worth X dollars, or he gave false information about the property to the appraiser in order to make it appear that the property was worth more than it was, that's fraud.
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Stoic View PostI'm sure that's not what he intended to say, but when he said “Everything you listed is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on earth, in every city,” fraud was one of the things listed.
Again, he clearly doesn't know what Trump did.
If all Trump did was say "My property is worth 2X dollars" when it was actually worth X dollars, that would not have been fraud.
But when he says, "I hired a professional appraiser, who found that my property is worth 2X dollars" when he either did not hire an appraiser, or the appraiser found that his property was worth X dollars, or he gave false information about the property to the appraiser in order to make it appear that the property was worth more than it was, that's fraud.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
There's no evidence that the President did any of those things.
https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/file...um_-_final.pdf
Tell me when you’ve read it so we can continue the discussion.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View Post
O'Leary was responding to the show's bullet list that you posted in the OP. You claimed he was saying every business "commits fraud" - but that is not what he was saying. He was saying that every business will puff up their valuation and that it's not fraud. That is just how negotiations go. He was not saying every business commits fraud. He was talking about the process, not Trump.
Excuse me. What fraud? This is not about Trump anymore. When you get a developer that builds a building and he says it’s worth $400 million, and he wants to borrow 200 million from a bank, which happens every day everywhere on Earth, including every American city, every developer is an entrepreneur. They shine the light on their building and they say it’s worth 400. The bank does its own due diligence, as was done in this case, because they’re very good at it, the banks are very good, and they say, no, it’s worth 300. We’re only going to loan you 150 million. That haggling has gone on for decades. That’s how it works
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View Post
O'Leary was responding to the show's bullet list that you posted in the OP. You claimed he was saying every business "commits fraud" - but that is not what he was saying. He was saying that every business will puff up their valuation and that it's not fraud. That is just how negotiations go. He was not saying every business commits fraud. He was talking about the process, not Trump.
Excuse me. What fraud? This is not about Trump anymore. When you get a developer that builds a building and he says it’s worth $400 million, and he wants to borrow 200 million from a bank, which happens every day everywhere on Earth, including every American city, every developer is an entrepreneur. They shine the light on their building and they say it’s worth 400. The bank does its own due diligence, as was done in this case, because they’re very good at it, the banks are very good, and they say, no, it’s worth 300. We’re only going to loan you 150 million. That haggling has gone on for decades. That’s how it worksOriginally posted by Mountain Man View Post
There's no evidence that the President did any of those things.- Falsification of business records in the 2nd degree
- Issuing false financial statements
- Insurance fraud
- Conspiracy
<taps the sign>
-Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Stoic View PostI'm sure that's not what he intended to say, but when he said “Everything you listed is done by every real estate developer, everywhere on earth, in every city,” fraud was one of the things listed.
Again, he clearly doesn't know what Trump did.
If all Trump did was say "My property is worth 2X dollars" when it was actually worth X dollars, that would not have been fraud.
But when he says, "I hired a professional appraiser, who found that my property is worth 2X dollars" when he either did not hire an appraiser, or the appraiser found that his property was worth X dollars, or he gave false information about the property to the appraiser in order to make it appear that the property was worth more than it was, that's fraud.
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View Post
Did he do that? If he got an appraiser that said his property was worth 2X, then submitted that to the bank, that is not fraud. That is the professional opinion of the appraiser. If Trump lied about the appraisal, how would that work? He would have to submit the actual document to the bank. They could and would check with the appraiser. If he just said "My property is worth 2X" without getting an appraisal, then that is not fraud, that is just his opinion.
With OMB's ego I could see him believing that because it was he himself who lived there that should be worth at least a factor of five.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by seer, Today, 11:43 AM
|
25 responses
85 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
Today, 04:49 PM
|
||
Started by seanD, Yesterday, 05:54 PM
|
39 responses
158 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 03:12 PM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 05-14-2024, 09:50 PM
|
106 responses
442 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 03:15 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 05-14-2024, 04:03 AM
|
25 responses
127 views
0 likes
|
Last Post Yesterday, 11:21 AM | ||
Started by carpedm9587, 05-13-2024, 12:51 PM
|
141 responses
905 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
Today, 10:22 AM
|
Comment