Oregon approves measure requiring insurers to cover abortion

[Bill the Cat]

This would be one of the more egregious examples of eisegesis that I have seen. I'm surprised that you were capable of it. Still you did have a bit of help from the translators.

FF copied that from the link he provided at the end. He isn't that clever.

[Carrikature]

And no, this is a very new phenomenon for Oregon's legislature. Brown is going to shoot herself in the foot if this keeps up.

Do you think so? I was under the impression she had a fair bit of support.

[Jedidiah]

Do you think so? I was under the impression she had a fair bit of support.

Could well be, it is Oregon after all.

[firstfloor]

Thou Shall NOT Murder.


I think He made Himself perfectly clear.

A clockmaker cuts and polishes the first gearwheel of a new clock and then goes home to bed. The next day he finds it stolen. Did the thief steel the clock being made?

[Bill the Cat]

A clockmaker cuts and polishes the first gearwheel of a new clock and then goes home to bed. The next day he finds it stolen. Did the thief steel the clock being made?

If the gearwheel is capable of dividing itself and growing into the clock, yes.

[ke7ejx]

Do you think so? I was under the impression she had a fair bit of support.

In Portland, yes. But a majority of the State she alienates. Remember last fall when that big tax bill failed? The first thing she did was announce she was closing the sanitarium in Junction City- never mind that it's the only mental hospital in Oregon. Even the liberals were freaking out over that. She still occasionally pulls out that card in the occasional speech.

[Carrikature]

In Portland, yes. But a majority of the State she alienates. Remember last fall when that big tax bill failed? The first thing she did was announce she was closing the sanitarium in Junction City- never mind that it's the only mental hospital in Oregon. Even the liberals were freaking out over that. She still occasionally pulls out that card in the occasional speech.

The polarization of this state is weird to me. It's like Portland is this major center of gravity with a lot of other stuff floating out in the rest of the state. Corvallis seems to echo Portland a lot, but that might just be the university. I haven't been here long enough (or in enough places) to get a feel for everywhere else. Maybe that will change some now that I'm working in Salem.

Threatening to close the mental hospital blows my mind. I thought mental health was a major focus for pretty much everyone here.

[ke7ejx]

The polarization of this state is weird to me. It's like Portland is this major center of gravity with a lot of other stuff floating out in the rest of the state. Corvallis seems to echo Portland a lot, but that might just be the university. I haven't been here long enough (or in enough places) to get a feel for everywhere else. Maybe that will change some now that I'm working in Salem.

Threatening to close the mental hospital blows my mind. I thought mental health was a major focus for pretty much everyone here.

Hehe, Multnomah County has the population concentration needed. I live a little further south of you and it too is a liberal town (Thank you, University of Oregon). However, I grew up in Redmond in the middle of the state that is predominiately conservative. You'll come to find that the Cascades acts as an Iron Curtain with the western half of the state being predominately liberal while the eastern half is conservative. As you said, our polarization is weird.

Regarding the mental hospital: http://nbc16.com/news/local/governor...-junction-city

and

http://projects.registerguard.com/rg...dents.html.csp

[Carrikature]

Hehe, Multnomah County has the population concentration needed. I live a little further south of you and it too is a liberal town (Thank you, University of Oregon). However, I grew up in Redmond in the middle of the state that is predominiately conservative. You'll come to find that the Cascades acts as an Iron Curtain with the western half of the state being predominately liberal while the eastern half is conservative. As you said, our polarization is weird.

I'd already picked up on the 'Iron Curtain' thing, but I expected that to be the case, anyway. The general tendency in the US is for predominantly rural areas to be conservative while cities are liberal. The weird part of Oregon is the distribution of the cities relative to the state as a whole. Most of that, I assume, is due to normal clustering along major trade routes (I-5). You see the same thing in Texas, except there are a lot more interstates, and they're more centrally located.

Regarding the mental hospital: http://nbc16.com/news/local/governor...-junction-city

and

http://projects.registerguard.com/rg...dents.html.csp

Weird. Kinda looks like she just saw a big chunk of money she could one-shot because it'd be easier.

[Tassman]

What can we do about it? What should be the Christian response?

All this hysteria over abortion is a modern phenomenon. "Shortly after the Supreme Court made their landmark decision on the issue in Roe v. Wade (1973), influential Baptist minister W.A. Criswell, pastor of First Baptist in Dallas, TX, and predecessor to FOX News darling Robert Jeffress, said: I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person, and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed". Cited Patheos. Admittedly he later changed his mind, but this was nevertheless a common attitude among Evangelicals until the late 1970s, when turned into a political issue and a litmus test for "true Evangelicals". The public debate of abortion made it a highly charged political issue in the US, which it had never been before.

[Charles]

All this hysteria over abortion is a modern phenomenon. "Shortly after the Supreme Court made their landmark decision on the issue in Roe v. Wade (1973), influential Baptist minister W.A. Criswell, pastor of First Baptist in Dallas, TX, and predecessor to FOX News darling Robert Jeffress, said: I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person, and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed". Cited Patheos. Admittedly he later changed his mind, but this was nevertheless a common attitude among Evangelicals until the late 1970s, when turned into a political issue and a litmus test for "true Evangelicals". The public debate of abortion made it a highly charged political issue in the US, which it had never been before.

Yet another issue God, if he exists, seems to have failed to adress properly. But again it probably made sure the theologians had a job arguing both forth and back while big decisions were made in real life with real implications.

[Tassman]

Yet another issue God, if he exists, seems to have failed to adress properly. But again it probably made sure the theologians had a job arguing both forth and back while big decisions were made in real life with real implications.

Well I suppose, from God's point of view, any publicity is better than no publicity. If nobody believes in him he will die...like Tinkerbell.

[Bill the Cat]

All this hysteria over abortion is a modern phenomenon.

What do you mean by "modern"?

"Shortly after the Supreme Court made their landmark decision on the issue in Roe v. Wade (1973), influential Baptist minister W.A. Criswell, pastor of First Baptist in Dallas, TX, and predecessor to FOX News darling Robert Jeffress, said: I have always felt that it was only after a child was born and had a life separate from its mother that it became an individual person, and it has always, therefore, seemed to me that what is best for the mother and for the future should be allowed".

here for more of why this line of argument - using 1960s views on abortion as a baseline - is reductionist.

Admittedly he later changed his mind, but this was nevertheless a common attitude among Evangelicals until the late 1970s, when turned into a political issue and a litmus test for "true Evangelicals". The public debate of abortion made it a highly charged political issue in the US, which it had never been before.

Yes it had. It was an issue as early as the beginning of the 1800s, and became a legal issue in 1821.

Source: http://www.abortionessay.com/pro-life-physician-horatio-storer-ancestors/

while physicians have long been united in condemning the act of producing abortion, at every period of gestation, except as necessary for preserving the life of either mother or child,

© Copyright Original Source

Source: http://www.abortionessay.com/horatio-march-criminal-abortion-1859/

AMA Report on Criminal Abortion, 1859

The committee appointed in May, 1857, to investigate the subject of Criminal Abortion, with a view to its general suppression, have attended to the duty assigned them, and would present the following report:

The heinous guilt of criminal abortion, however viewed by the community, is everywhere acknowledged by medical men.

Its frequency - among all classes of society, rich and poor, single and married - most physicians have been led to suspect; very many, from their own experience of its deplorable results, have known. Were any doubt, however, entertained upon this point, it is at once removed by comparisons of the present with our past rates of increase in population, the size of our families, the statistics of our foetal deaths, by themselves considered, and relatively to the births and to the general mortality. The evidence from these sources is too constant and too overwhelming to be explained on the ground that pregnancies are merely prevented; or on any other supposition than that of fearfully extended crime.

The causes of this general demoralization are manifold. There are three of them, however, and they are the most important, with which the medical profession have especially to do.

The first of these causes is a wide-spread popular ignorance of the true character of the crime--a belief, even among mothers themselves, that the foetus is not alive till after the period of quickening.

The second of the agents alluded to is the fact that the profession themselves are frequently supposed careless of foetal life; not that its respectable members are ever knowingly and intentionally accessory to the unjustifiable commission of abortion, but that they are thought at times to omit precautions or measures that might prevent the occurrence of so unfortunate an event.

The third reason of the frightful extent of this crime is found in the grave defects of our laws, both common and statute, as regards the independent and actual existence of the child before birth, as a living being. These errors, which are sufficient in most instances to prevent conviction, are based, and only based, upon mistaken and exploded medical dogmas. With strange inconsistency, the law fully acknowledges the foetus in utero and its inherent rights, for civil purposes; while personally and as criminally affected, it fails to recognize it, and to its life as yet denies all protection.

Abundant proof upon each of these points has been prepared by the Committee, and is elsewhere* [Report Footnote: *North American Medico-Chirurgical Review, Jan. 1859, et seq.] being published to the profession; but as the statements now made are almost axiomatic, recapitulation would be here wearisome and is unnecessary.

Our duty is plain. If, by any act, we can effect aught towards the suppression of this crime, it must be done. In questions of abstract right, the medical profession do not acknowledge such words as expediency, time service, cowardice. We are the physical guardians of women; we, alone, thus far, of their offspring in utero. The case is here of life or death--the life or death of thousands--and it depends, almost wholly, upon ourselves.

As a profession we are unanimous in our condemnation of the crime. Mere resolutions to this effect, and nothing more, are therefore useless, evasive, and cruel.

© Copyright Original Source

[Tassman]

What do you mean by "modern"?





<Snipped>

[Sparko]

Translation: I hand-wave away your evidence and merely repeat my baseless assertoin because I have nothing else.

Hey Tassy, if Abortion was never an issue until Roe, could it be because most people believed it was wrong and it was illegal?

LBGT was never a "highly charged emotional issue" until the gay rights movement either was it? It was just accepted as wrong. Nothing to argue about until the gays made it an issue by trying to normalize it.

Abortion wasn't an issue until they legalized it. It was just intrinsic to the society that it was wrong and illegal.

and the reason it became an issue is thanks to the likes of liberals.