Trial for church who beat gay member to 'expel his demons'

[demi-conservative]

Like being a Russian shill?

No, like being as progtarded as you!!!

[rogue06]

Yes, some of that stuff would be bad, on the other hand I too have no respect for psychologists or the field in general. It is not a real science.

I knew someone who had a PhD in both psychiatry and psychology. He did not seem to hold either field in high regard. He used to say that there are five "sciences" where if you got half a dozen experts from and asked them the exact same question you would get six totally different answers: sociology, economics, psychiatry, psychology and the last one presently slips my mind. He also said that you learn everything you need to know about psychology in your first quarter and in the next quarter you discover that everything you learned is hogwash and learn everything you need to know then. The same thing with every subsequent quarter. In the end you pick out what seems to make sense to you and go from there.

[rogue06]

I would think that the idea of inducing vomiting while forcing someone to watch gay porn would be rather obviously wrong because:

1. inducing vomiting, unless the reason was to counteract a poison, would be one of the worse forms of torture I can imagine (no joke--I absolutely hate puking)

Actually it is used on those who have been trained to withstand extreme pain. Apparently it is something you just cannot block out.

Don't ask how I know.

2. Gay porn--we want to get people away from this, right?

The first thing that popped into my head was who just "happened" to have some available to use.

[Starlight]

I knew someone who had a PhD in both psychiatry and psychology. He did not seem to hold either field in high regard. He used to say that there are five "sciences" where if you got half a dozen experts from and asked them the exact same question you would get six totally different answers: sociology, economics, psychiatry, psychology and the last one presently slips my mind. He also said that you learn everything you need to know about psychology in your first quarter and in the next quarter you discover that everything you learned is hogwash and learn everything you need to know then. The same thing with every subsequent quarter. In the end you pick out what seems to make sense to you and go from there.

I don't think most people would consider economics to be a 'science'. It's a field that perhaps ought to be studied scientifically, but those currently practicing it generally do not do so.

I have a good friend who has a PhD in psychology and another who is a practicing psychiatrist. I don't think either of them would agree with the assessment of your acquaintance with respect to their fields.

[rogue06]

You're different. You're worth keeping.

For something else than being bacon on the hoof?

[Zymologist]

Actually it is used on those who have been trained to withstand extreme pain. Apparently it is something you just cannot block out.

Don't ask how I know.

Interesting....

When I was a kid, I'd sometimes think to myself (only mostly joking): I'd break an arm for someone, maybe even die for someone, but I would not puke for someone.

So I'll, like, take a bullet for you, but I won't catch the flu for you. Sorry dude, you're on your own there.

[demi-conservative]

I would think that the idea of inducing vomiting while forcing someone to watch gay porn would be rather obviously wrong because:
2. Gay porn--we want to get people away from this, right?

Some loonies think exposing treater and treatee to gay porn is 'good idea'.

[Charles]

I really suspect a lot of kids are being severely harmed by well meaning but completely incompetent pastors, allowing these children to be subjected all sorts of weird and out-moded treatment. We already know that some have used aversion therapy, forcing them to drink things that makes them puke while making them watch gay porn (whether or not they had a porn habit).

We know that there's been sexual molestation by some of these conversion pastors against these youths.

And I don't get why some of the camps have to be outside of the US. That to me just screams that they're practicing torture against the kids, which is what a lot of them seem to be doing.

The best camps I've heard of foster comradery, and don't focus on turning gay kids straight, but on helping them become chaste and celibate. That can be done good. But I suspect a lot of camps are not being run by people with any expertise in what they're doing. But rather amateurs who are mixing and matching pseudoscientific armchair models of how sexuality develops, with various types of treatment.

Stuff that like that has to be systematically stopped and forbidden. I have no sympathy for Christian pastors who practice stuff like that without any sense of intellectual integrity, or respect of the opinions of the psychologists in the world. At best they're just running camps for kids, at worst they're causing grave wounds and hurting the cause of Christian morality in the long run.

Very thoughtful and very interesting.

[Sparko]

Romans chapter 1 (King James version)
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


Looking at all of this I can honestly say that I am not surprised that members of the church find strange ways of treating homosexuals. Some have pointed out that what this specific church has done has no founding in scripture. However, looking in scripture, we can clearly see that it states that "such things are worthy of death". Now a ton of acts are listed but they are all mentioned in the context in which homosexual activities are mentioned.

Some of you will no doubt mention the context, and that love is the essence. However, one wonders where to find the love in "God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves". Where is the love in giving up somebody? We are also told that they are without excuse. Christians often point out that God loves the homosexual but not his homosexual activities. How does that statement fit with the lines just quoted?

So, I would say, looking at what scripture actually does say as opposed to what Christians are actually doing, does not solve the problem in this case. It is really no surprise that texts like these have very harmful consequences.

sorry but I fail to see where the, "....so beat the demons out of them" part is? Could you point that out for us?

If you READ Romans, it starts out by showing how sinful WE ALL ARE. All of mankind. That we are without excuse and deserve hell. Then it goes on to tell that even though we are evil and reject God, God sent his only son to us because he loved us and Jesus died so that we could be saved. despite being sinners. Paul also goes on to say that even though he is saved, he is still a sinner and struggles with it every day.