UNFCCC Accord de Paris

[Meh Gerbil]

Oh, and "thousands of bird deaths a year" doesn't really convey the severity of the problem. Between wind and solar farms, it's estimated that over 300,000 birds a year are killed in North America alone, not to mention countless insects, and who knows what else.

No loss, birds are just flying rats but twice as dirty.

[Sparko]

Oh, and "thousands of bird deaths a year" doesn't really convey the severity of the problem. Between wind and solar farms, it's estimated that over 300,000 birds a year are killed in North America alone, not to mention countless insects, and who knows what else.

Now we know what happened to all the bees!!!

[Leonhard]

Wind farms and solar installations have proven to be extremely harmful to birds, killing thousands of them every year. But hey, at least we're saving the planet.

The only reason conservatives here are crying crocodile tears for birds dying, is because they think it conflicts with the environmental narrative, and exposes hypocrisy. However, cats kill a thousand times as many birds as wind turbines do. Wind turbines don't even reach 0.1% of that total. A similar study was done in Denmark, and it was shown that simple strategic placement of the wind turbines reduced it significantly.

The only problem are for near extinct species that were hunted to that point. Some concern should be made for not building wind turbines along their flight paths.

[Leonhard]

I can't wait till they find out that the black glass of the solar panels is heating up the surroundings and causing global warming or something like that.

A nuclear power plant produces a similar amount of waste heat. What else do you think is going out as a steaming cloud through the cooling tower?

But yeah, solar farms basically hog a lot of land and displace a lot of wildlife.

Oh no, 1-2% of US soil covered with solar panels. We're swamped.

The best idea I have heard so far was paving roads with solar cells. They are already there. Soon there will be electric cars everywhere that could use the power as they whizz by. The problem is that the roads would cost a lot to maintain with all the wear and tear.

That idea was moronic. Roads made of glass would break. You need something soft and yielding like asphalt. The future of solar panels are either large industrial scale grids, or something like solar roofs. But mostly huge grids.

[Sparko]

The only reason conservatives here are crying crocodile tears for birds dying, is because they think it conflicts with the environmental narrative. However, cats kill a million times as many birds as wind turbines do.

The only problem are for near extinct species that were hunted to that point. Some concern should be made for not building wind turbines along their flight paths.

but solar and wind farms are pretty rare right now. If you start popping them up all over the country, you not only greatly increase the deaths to birds but you displace a heck of a lot of wild life. Solar power is very inefficient right now. It takes acres of solar cells to produce power in any useful quantity. And wind turbines only work in places where there is a steady wind. You are limited to where you can put them. Usually around coast lines, but that interferes with tourism and pleasure beaches.

[Leonhard]

but solar and wind farms are pretty rare right now. If you start popping them up all over the country, you not only greatly increase the deaths to birds but you displace a heck of a lot of wild life. Solar power is very inefficient right now. It takes acres of solar cells to produce power in any useful quantity.

It's not *that* bad. The cells are around 20% efficient which is more than enough. There's a lot of free space in the US. You guys are spread out a lot more thinly than Denmark is. Why do you think we can use bikes everywhere here in Denmark? Its because we live so close to each other. We have to sacrifice actual farmland for solar panels, which is why we're focusing a lot on offshore wind (expensive) and inland wind (which is always subject to NIMBY complaints). But despite all that we're getting there.

If we can get there in this jam packed country, you guys can for certain.

The little square there is roughly how much it'd take to power the entire US, cars and all using only solar panels. The grid storage would be a tiny pixel in comparison. Its doable. There'd just be the odd field of blue photovoltaic cells here and there.

And wind turbines only work in places where there is a steady wind. You are limited to where you can put them. Usually around coast lines, but that interferes with tourism and pleasure beaches.

Funny Denmark is known for its many white wind turbines visible from just about every hilltop you stand on. Aesthetics is a weird thing. But I agree with wind, its situational, just like geothermal. However take Arizona or Texas, they have near constant wind blowing. And plenty of wide open space.

[Sparko]

A nuclear power plant produces a similar amount of waste heat. What else do you think is going out as a steaming cloud through the cooling tower?



Oh no, 1-2% of US soil covered with solar panels. We're swamped.

What will you do in very crowded countries like in Europe? They don't have any spare ground. Unless they want to give up farmland for solar power.

That idea was moronic. Roads made of glass would break. You need something soft and yielding like asphalt. The future of solar panels are either large industrial scale grids, or something like solar roofs. But mostly huge grids.

apparently they have improved the durability. They are making a test on some walkways along Route 66 in the USA:

https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/04/...s-to-route-66/

and actually putting solar cells on roadways in various places - called wattway

http://theray.org/technology/solar-paved-highway/

and apparently they are developing flexible solar cells

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EY5FIGM...a-307535759020

If they are going to do solar power, it makes more sense to use already paved areas: roads, sidewalks, etc. than to take up valuable nature areas for wild life.

[Leonhard]

What will you do in very crowded countries like in Europe? They don't have any spare ground. Unless they want to give up farmland for solar power.

apparently they have improved the durability.

I don't buy it. Glass can be really tough true, but the road would have to last years. Temperature change, rain causing the ground to swell, the ground slowly moving which it does as the year pass. Asphalt is yielding and flexible. Its really hard to come up with anything better than asphalt.

Solar tiles for roofs I believe in though.

Not that I wouldn't want to see new advanced roads with technicolor lights in it. I want it to look like Tron out there as much as the next guy. Make it the future already.

[seer]

Why do you think we can use bikes everywhere here in Denmark?

Because you guys are dangerous behind the wheel? Remember, I have been to Denmark!

[Leonhard]

Because you guys are dangerous behind the wheel? Remember, I have been to Denmark!

Copenhagen or Aarhus? People drive quite differently depending on what side of the Storebelt Bridge you're on.

[seer]

Copenhagen or Aarhus? People drive quite differently depending on what side of the Storebelt Bridge you're on.

Copenhagen and the country...

[Leonhard]

Copenhagen and the country...

So basically Copenhagen and the rest of the country. Glad you visited once seer.

[Sparko]

I don't buy it. Glass can be really tough true, but the road would have to last years. Temperature change, rain causing the ground to swell, the ground slowly moving which it does as the year pass. Asphalt is yielding and flexible. Its really hard to come up with anything better than asphalt.

Solar tiles for roofs I believe in though.

Not that I wouldn't want to see new advanced roads with technicolor lights in it. I want it to look like Tron out there as much as the next guy. Make it the future already.

the ones I have seen are modular, where the solar cells are more like cobblestones, making them easier to replace and more flexible. I think if you put them on a softer surface, each cell can give with the weight of the vehicle as it passes over and not break, especially if they can come up with a durable transparent cover over the glass, or make the cells out of plastic.

Like I said, all this solar power stuff is pretty much in it's infancy. I do think eventually it will come into it's own and be efficient, and they will make it more durable. But that is in the future. I endorse keeping experimenting with it, but replacing working energy sources with such things on a large scale basis is foolish right now.

[seer]

So basically Copenhagen and the rest of the country. Glad you visited once seer.

Yes, back in 1975 - I loved Copenhagen and the Tivoli Gardens - you guys were almost normal compared to Amsterdam...

[Sparko]

Yes, back in 1975 - I loved Copenhagen and the Tivoli Gardens - you guys were almost normal compared to Amsterdam...

I have been to Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and Italy. I had a stopover in London once, but never got off the plane.