Originally posted by seer
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Vatican to allow Islamic prayers
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אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostThe language peoole speak when praying, eg, when addressing God in Arabic as Allah, does not determine whether or not they worship false gods. And I suspect more than a few Christians have false gods in their lives. 'Why do call me, 'Lord, Lord,' but do not do what I say? ... Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? And in your name we cast out demons! And we did many miracles in your name!' But then I will declare unto them, 'I never knew you; depart from me you workers of lawlessness!'
Definitions are important and if your definition of God denies The Son you are defining a god that doesn't exist.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by The Thinker View PostWhat's next, are they going to dissent into immorality and let pedophiles take over their ranks???"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostThe language peoole speak when praying, eg, when addressing God in Arabic as Allah, does not determine whether or not they worship false gods. 'Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View PostI think all the True Christians (tm) here would agree with that; however, you have to also realize that Jesus asked His disciples "Who do you say I am?"
Definitions are important and if your definition of God denies The Son you are defining a god that doesn't exist.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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You mean the Muslims praying at the Vatican are worshiping Jesus Christ - God in the flesh?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostTrying to wrap my head around what you're saying in this thread...are you arguing that Muslims and Christians do, in fact, worship the same God, although the Muslims in that case would have an erroneous understanding of Him?אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostNo. I asked you a few questions.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostWhat about those of us who do not believe that God can be defined in the classical sense, eg, Thomas Aquinas? We certainly believe in the Trinity but also in the classical doctrine of divine simplicity. Would you say that we are not true Christians because we may not accept your definition of God? I know some theolgians in the Protestant traditions reject divine simplicity. Would some of them make that a necessary and defining characteristic of who is and who is not a true Christian?
It isn't entirely a matter of definition - we cannot define God in a comprehensive way - but He has set up a couple of factoids, a couple of sign posts that seem to be essential.
One of those sign posts had His Son nailed to it - He went through a great deal of trouble to communicate His Son so I think we should emphasis that in our analysis.
You can run off into the metaphysical weeds if you want but God went through a great deal of trouble to put His Son right out there where even the most ignorant can understand. If some inbred hillbilly in the Appalachian mountains can 'get it', if a thief next to Christ on the cross can 'get it', then I expect a Muslim theologian can 'get it' as well - or reject it, as the case may be.Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostThat led to a brief discussion of monotheism and whether or not God could be defined.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou can ask all you want. I doubt very much that a Muslim would craft a prayer for the Christian God, so what is your point? If Muslims are praying in the Vatican they are praying to Allah, a false god, not to our God.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by seer View PostOf course He can be defined, if not totally, substantially. And He certainly can self-disclose.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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