Obamagate

[shunyadragon]

We know the Obama admin sought a FISA order against the Trump campaign, twice. The first one was rejected, the second was granted. They didn't go to that much trouble if they didn't plan to use it.

Sources?!?!? Need details on this with references, and how they support Trumps accusations.

Trump is facing a deadline for presenting his evidence on these unfounded accusation. So far silence . . .

Face it Trump is lying!!!!

[rogue06]

As I said previously, if you talk to Russians you will be recorded.

Then they wouldn't have needed to go to the FISA courts to get electronic surveillance approved.

[shunyadragon]

Then they wouldn't have needed to go to the FISA courts to get electronic surveillance approved.

No, but again there is no problem unless Trumpians communicate with the Russians, or ah . . . others making deals with other governments like Turkey.

Again this is not the complaint by Trump. He claimed Obama ordered and carried out Phone taps on Trump Tower.

[Mountain Man]

Sources?!?!? Need details on this with references, and how they support Trumps accusations.

Trump is facing a deadline for presenting his evidence on these unfounded accusation. So far silence . . .

Face it Trump is lying!!!!

See my previous post. Three news organizations including the BBC reported on the FISA orders, and The New York Times reported that the Trump campaign was "wiretapped" as part of the Obama administration's supposed investigation into ties to Russia -- although I'm beginning to suspect that the Russian angle was nothing more than a ginned up excuse to spy on a political enemy. Thanks to WikiLeaks, we know the CIA can hack into computers and deliberately leave behind "fingerprints" to implicate anybody they want, such as the Russians.

[Yttrium]

It was first reported here:

https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-f...ies-to-russia/

Then picked up here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38589427

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ussia-contacts

The FISA warrants were directed at two banks. Although Trump & co. were certainly involved in the investigation, they weren't being directly targeted.

[robrecht]

The FISA warrants were directed at two banks. Although Trump & co. were certainly involved in the investigation, they weren't being directly targeted.

Nor has anyone offered any evidence that this was orchestrated by Obama, which was what Trump claimed.

[rogue06]

The FISA warrants were directed at two banks. Although Trump & co. were certainly involved in the investigation, they weren't being directly targeted.

IIRC, the first one directly named Trump so they removed his name and got it approved.

[rogue06]

Nor has anyone offered any evidence that this was orchestrated by Obama, which was what Trump claimed.

That Obama himself personally and directly orchestrated it will indeed be difficult to prove but it seems incredibly unlikely that he wasn't fully aware of what was going on and even consulted. Think about it. Could you imagine for one minute there being an application to electronically surveil a presidential candidate and his associates based on allegations that they were colluding with Russian agents during the end of a hotly contested presidential campaign without deliberations taking place between the White House and the Department of Justice? If you think so then the next logical question ought to be what color is the sky in the world you inhabit.

[robrecht]

That Obama himself personally and directly orchestrated it will indeed be difficult to prove but it seems incredibly unlikely that he wasn't fully aware of what was going on and even consulted. Think about it. Could you imagine for one minute there being an application to electronically surveil a presidential candidate and his associates based on allegations that they were colluding with Russian agents during the end of a hotly contested presidential campaign without deliberations taking place between the White House and the Department of Justice? If you think so then the next logical question ought to be what color is the sky in the world you inhabit.

Please distinguish between and among suspicions, allegations, and facts. If you or others do not understand the differences, consult a dictionary.

[Yttrium]

That Obama himself personally and directly orchestrated it will indeed be difficult to prove but it seems incredibly unlikely that he wasn't fully aware of what was going on and even consulted. Think about it. Could you imagine for one minute there being an application to electronically surveil a presidential candidate and his associates based on allegations that they were colluding with Russian agents during the end of a hotly contested presidential campaign without deliberations taking place between the White House and the Department of Justice? If you think so then the next logical question ought to be what color is the sky in the world you inhabit.

Nevertheless, the FBI during the Obama administration does not equal the Obama administration.

[rogue06]

Nevertheless, the FBI during the Obama administration does not equal the Obama administration.

And Loretta Lynch is not the FBI. According to ABC News the Attorney General signed off on all wiretap requests made to the FISA court. The application to surveil Trump and/or his associates would have been approved by her. I don't think it is conceivable that, considering the short leash Obama kept his AGs on (they never once, AFAICT, did anything that Obama disagreed with), that Obama was not kept informed of everything that was going on and in all likelihood consulted on. The only real question is did he or his inner circle initiate this investigation.

Source: Everything you need to know about FISA wiretaps

More than a thousand applications for electronic surveillance, all signed by the attorney general, are submitted each year, and the vast majority are approved.

From 2009 to 2015, for example, more than 10,700 applications for electronic surveillance were submitted, and only one was denied in its entirety, according to annual reports sent to Congress. Another one was denied in part, and 17 were withdrawn by the government.



Source

© Copyright Original Source

[shunyadragon]

And Loretta Lynch is not the FBI. According to ABC News the Attorney General signed off on all wiretap requests made to the FISA court. The application to surveil Trump and/or his associates would have been approved by her. I don't think it is conceivable that, considering the short leash Obama kept his AGs on (they never once, AFAICT, did anything that Obama disagreed with), that Obama was not kept informed of everything that was going on and in all likelihood consulted on. The only real question is did he or his inner circle initiate this investigation.

Source: Everything you need to know about FISA wiretaps

More than a thousand applications for electronic surveillance, all signed by the attorney general, are submitted each year, and the vast majority are approved.

From 2009 to 2015, for example, more than 10,700 applications for electronic surveillance were submitted, and only one was denied in its entirety, according to annual reports sent to Congress. Another one was denied in part, and 17 were withdrawn by the government.



Source

© Copyright Original Source

Except for the problem Obama never ordered the wire taps, and none were ever carried out on Trump Tower.

Trump is facing deadline to present his evidence. There is none.

[Starlight]

Except for the problem Obama never ordered the wire taps, and none were ever carried out on Trump Tower.

Yup, Trump's just a naive old buffoon who believes everything he reads, and one of his staffers slipped a Breitbart article into Trump's daily pile of news articles for him to read. Because Trump's a dumb old man, instead of actually checking with the intelligence agencies about the wiretaps, he took to twitter to do his version of forwarding crazy emails.

And his idiocy with misunderstanding news items mindlessly and parroting them is not confined to this instance. We saw it also in his recently claims that Obama had released a hundred prisoners from Gitmo (it was actually Bush), and in his claim that a terrorist attack had happened last night in Sweden (actually a lying right-wing propaganda documentary had aired the night before that falsified interviews with Swedish policy to try to push the narrative that Sweden's high acceptance rate of refugees was hurting the country).

Trump is basically the old guy in the rest home who is shouting at the TV. He doesn't seem to realize that he's president and that he has other ways of getting information besides TV. And he doesn't seem to realize that he should check claims before he misunderstands and then repeats them. He's just a moron through and through. He actually seems legitimately dumber than Bush. Pathetic! Sad!

[rogue06]

Except for the problem Obama never ordered the wire taps, and none were ever carried out on Trump Tower.

Trump is facing deadline to present his evidence. There is none.

You present as fact two things that we don't know.

[Yttrium]

Well, if the congressional investigation finds no sign of wiretaps on Trump, a few people around here are finally going to have to admit... that the evidence was erased, the FBI personnel involved are all lying (especially including Comey), and the FISA judge was bribed to stay silent. That's the only way to maintain a good conspiracy theory. If the investigation does find something, well, that'll be fun too.