What Would The Christian Rather See?

[seer]

An atheist could believe in ghosts. Ghosts aren't gods, just spirits, and so one who rejects a belief in gods yet who believes in ghosts could technically still call themselves an atheist.

Do you really know any atheists that believe in ghosts?

[Meh Gerbil]

Some of us do, however, note that "atheism" is not a belief, but rather a lack of belief.

This sounds like 'cold is not a temperature because it is a lack of heat'.

[Meh Gerbil]

It occurs to me that if 'atheism' isn't a belief then we need up update the faith designations for TWEB.
Maybe call them 'world-views' and pick out a half dozen atheism based world-views to select.

Please note: circular balloonists deny the existence of the word 'god'; hence, it is impossible to determine if we are theist or atheist.

[Adrift]

It occurs to me that if 'atheism' isn't a belief then we need up update the faith designations for TWEB.
Maybe call them 'world-views' and pick out a half dozen atheism based world-views to select.

Please note: circular balloonists deny the existence of the word 'god'; hence, it is impossible to determine if we are theist or atheist.

What's interesting to me is that the theistic worldview has been the predominant worldview through time and place. Our prehistoric ancestors were probably all theists to a person, and that's been the case all throughout history, and even today the vast vast majority of people in the world are theists. Atheism, as a real cultural alternative to theism, is brand-spanking new, and still well within the minority. It takes someone to consciously look around them at the vast sea of people around the world, and even within their own ancestry, and come to the conclusion that, no, all of these people are wrong, and always have been wrong, and that my relatively unique perspective on the question of the divine is the correct one. To somehow come to this conclusion, but then convince yourself that this relatively unique view is not actually a belief that you somehow formulated after looking at all the people around you is super strange.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the amount of people who hold to a view means that view is correct. I simply find it bizarre that one can hold a view that is radically different from the predominant worldview, and then claim that you lack a worldview/ belief altogether.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Atheist philosophers like Alex Rosenberg are perfectly fine with thinking of atheism as a worldview. It's no less a worldview than theism is, or are you of the opinion that theism is not a worldview either?

Yep, I similarly don't consider theism to be a worldview, but rather an element which may be part of a particular worldview.

Do you really know any atheists that believe in ghosts?

I do.

This sounds like 'cold is not a temperature because it is a lack of heat'.

"Cold" isn't a temperature. Neither is "hot," for that matter. These are both extremely subjective descriptions of a temperature.

[seer]

I do.

Really? So you believe that there is a soul or spirit that lives on after the body dies?

[Boxing Pythagoras]

I simply find it bizarre that one can hold a view that is radically different from the predominant worldview, and then claim that you lack a worldview/ belief altogether.

I don't think anyone in this thread has made such a claim. Quite the contrary, we have acknowledged that we hold worldviews. We only take issue with the idea that atheism is a worldview.

[Adrift]

Yep, I similarly don't consider theism to be a worldview, but rather an element which may be part of a particular worldview.

Maybe this is simply a disagreement about semantics. American Heritage Dictionary defines "worldview" this way,

1. The overall perspective from which one sees and interprets the world.
2. A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group. In both senses also called Weltanschauung.

You seem to be referring to 2, while some of us are referring to 1. At least colloquially, it's not at all uncommon to find people who refer to their theistic or atheistic worldviews.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Really? So you believe that there is a soul or spirit that lives on after the body dies?

Sorry, I meant that I know atheists who believe in ghosts; not that I am such an atheist.

[Adrift]

I don't think anyone in this thread has made such a claim. Quite the contrary, we have acknowledged that we hold worldviews. We only take issue with the idea that atheism is a worldview.

You did in post #40, and The Thinker did in post #31.

[The Thinker]

Do you really know any atheists that believe in ghosts?

I've met them before but I don't currently know any atheists who do.

[The Thinker]

You did in post #40, and The Thinker did in post #31.

Boxing is correct. We acknowledge that we hold worldviews, just that atheism is not a worldview proper. Naturalism is a worldview. It's the worldview most atheists have.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

You did in post #40, and The Thinker did in post #31.

I'm not sure I understand you. If you're saying that The Thinker and I denied holding to any worldview, in those posts, that is clearly not the case. The Thinker noted that Naturalism is a worldview, and I believe he does identify as a Naturalist. I certainly mentioned atheistic Heathenry, in my post, which was a reference to my own worldview. Neither of us denied holding to any worldview.

[Meh Gerbil]

What's interesting to me is that the theistic worldview has been the predominant worldview through time and place. Our prehistoric ancestors were probably all theists to a person, and that's been the case all throughout history, and even today the vast vast majority of people in the world are theists. Atheism, as a real cultural alternative to theism, is brand-spanking new, and still well within the minority. It takes someone to consciously look around them at the vast sea of people around the world, and even within their own ancestry, and come to the conclusion that, no, all of these people are wrong, and always have been wrong, and that my relatively unique perspective on the question of the divine is the correct one. To somehow come to this conclusion, but then convince yourself that this relatively unique view is not actually a belief that you somehow formulated after looking at all the people around you is super strange.

I agree.
I think it has something to do with the rather exceptional control (real or imagined) we've gained over our world in the past couple of hundred years.
Hopefully we're burning through the last half of 'scientific optimism' phase right now.

Science has been a stand in for religion for many people largely because its deficits aren't readily apparent.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the amount of people who hold to a view means that view is correct. I simply find it bizarre that one can hold a view that is radically different from the predominant worldview, and then claim that you lack a worldview/ belief altogether.

My guess is that they see the fallout of actually making a truth claim and shy away from it.

[Adrift]

I'm not sure I understand you. If you're saying that The Thinker and I denied holding to any worldview, in those posts, that is clearly not the case. The Thinker noted that Naturalism is a worldview, and I believe he does identify as a Naturalist. I certainly mentioned atheistic Heathenry, in my post, which was a reference to my own worldview. Neither of us denied holding to any worldview.

Huh. I'm surprised I have to explain this. I thought it was clear from the context of my post, and the surrounding conversation that I was very obviously referring to the idea of an "atheistic worldview" and the idea that "atheism is a lack of belief".