Stasi Raid Mar-a-Lago

[Ronson]

So is there anyone here who still thinks the DOJ should not have executed a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago?

Or are we all agreed that that's the appropriate way to get classified documents back when Trump refuses to return them, or even admit that he has them?

Your second sentence is a loaded question, and negates the first.

[Gondwanaland]

So is there anyone here who still thinks the DOJ should not have executed a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago?

It's the only rational method, given that other less intrusive and confronting methods failed and potential crimes (including possibly by lawyers it appears) are at issue. Of course, rational isn't something trump cultists care about, so I have no doubt some still think they shouldn't have.

Or are we all agreed that that's the appropriate way to get classified documents back when Trump refuses to return them, or even admit that he has them?

.... and apparently was moving boxes around in and out of the storage area in the series of days that the surveillance tapes covered in the subpoena...

[Gondwanaland]

Your second sentence is a loaded question, and negates the first.

How precisely is a stating of the observable facts a loaded question?

[Gondwanaland]

Whether it was truly warranted (pun intended) or not, they gave a wonderful gift to Trump in the way they handled it.

They handled it legally and professionally. No gift was given to Trump, he creates his own narrative no matter what happens.

[Juvenal]

Or are we all agreed that that's the appropriate way to get classified documents back when Trump refuses to return them, or even admit that he has them?

The warrant said nothing about retrieving classified documents. The word you’re looking for is “restricted,” representing the statutes cited in the warrant. And yes, as less coercive methods failed, it was time to escalate.

[Gondwanaland]

It depends on what transpired between June 3 and the raid. The Mythical and Mysterious "Affidavit" will have to be revealed, and be sufficiently unredacted to show why a mere subpoena was not sufficient.

Even if it turns out a search warrant was justified, the broad scope of the one actually issued seems to go beyond the spirit of the Fourth Amendment.

We do know that around the time of that visit they subpoened a large time period of surveillance tapes and observed moving of documents and boxes.

Not sure how the 'broad scope' goes beyond the spirit of the Fourth Amendment. Seemed like a perfectly reasonable scope to me when dealing with someone who has lied, who still has potential classified materials and other materials that do not belong to him, who has a large area of the resort to hide them in. I mean, if they had just said search anywhere on the entire property, no matter if the Trump crew may have reasonable gone there or stored things there (guest rooms, the kitchens, etc.), then you'd have an argument of a 'broad scope'. But they didn't.

[Cow Poke]

They handled it legally and professionally. No gift was given to Trump, he creates his own narrative no matter what happens.

No gift was intentionally given to Trump.

[Starlight]

Why would he regret it? I think part of their goal *was* to incite violence.

You think the FBI weren't just doing law enforcement, and were, in fact, thinking about how they could incite violence in America? Having the FBI offices attacked was a specific goal of theirs?

Perhaps the Trump judge who signed the warrant, wasn't just doing law enforcement, and was in fact thinking about how he could achieve death threats for himself? Perhaps he was also aiming to force his synagogue to cancel their weekly service due to threats?

[Gondwanaland]

No gift was intentionally given to Trump.

Trump makes 'gifts' of whatever is given to him, whether it is a turd sandwich or a golden goose egg. Because he has brainwashed cultists who listen to whatever he says as if he's the second coming of Jesus, and believe whatever lies he tells them.

[Gondwanaland]

Why would he regret it? I think part of their goal *was* to incite violence.

Oh, certainly, it's clear that Donald, Eric, Lara, and the rest of the Trump's had very much a goal to incite violence and stir up their cultists. If you want to claim the FBI did, well, that's rather odd, given that they did this very low-key, made no public announcement of this, and did it by the book with it sealed, in fact. The only way anyone found out it even happened was via Trump and his absurdity-filled statement that he put out to rile up his supporters.

One of whom is dead now (and potentially a second dead today if that Capitol attacker ends up being a cultist as well).

[Ronson]

How precisely is a stating of the observable facts a loaded question?

Tell me how you observed "Trump refuses to return them, or even admit that he has them"?

[Starlight]

No gift was intentionally given to Trump.

It's not the sort of 'gift' anyone wants to get.

I think this will temporarily help Trump's numbers in the Republican presidential primary. But since that is years away the effect will have worn off by the time it happens.

I think it will damage Republican chances in the upcoming midterms. It's galvanized the Trump base, who were going to vote Republican in the midterms anyway. But independents who don't follow politics much and who hear "FBI raid" and think "ooh, sounds bad for Trump" are going to be swayed away from voting Republican on average as a result.

Overall, anyone who thinks this is good for Trump politically is just doing the political calculus wrong.

[Gondwanaland]

Tell me how you observed "Trump refuses to return them, or even admit that he has them"?

By..... the fact that he didn't return them in February, didn't return them in June, had his lawyers lie and claim he didn't have any more in June.... only for them to be there when raided, just as the informant/mole told them......? Are you feeling okay? You forget your thinking pills this morning?

[Ronson]

By..... the fact that he didn't return them in February, didn't return them in June,

How do you know this? This was a claim by whom?

had his lawyers lie and claim he didn't have any more in June....

He told his lawyers to "lie"? Again, how do you know this?

only for them to be there when raided, just as the informant/mole told them......? Are you feeling okay? You forget your thinking pills this morning?

You are taking the word of some source and assuming it is all accurate. That is not "observable facts."

[Gondwanaland]

How do you know this? This was a claim by whom?

Have you been asleep the last day and a half?

He told his lawyers to "lie"? Again, how do you know this?

Because they lied and claimed that he had turned over all such documents, genius.

You are taking the word of some source and assuming it is all accurate. That is not "observable facts."

So you are going to deny the observable fact of Top secret and classified documents recovered in the raid. Got it, cultist.