Inaguration crowd size

[oxmixmudd]

OK here is the definitive video. A side by side comparison from CNN which appears to be synced to the same approximate time.

It does show that Obama's crowd was larger, but it also shows a much larger crowd than the photo (in my post above) typically used to show how small Trump's crowd was.

It's the same data sparko. There is no conspiracy to try to make Trumps crowd size look smaller by using photos from other times. The most you could say is that the use of the Monument photo minimizes the apparent size, where as photos taken from the Capitol tend to maximize its apparent size.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

In my mind the crowd sizes were comparable. Any use of the crowds as a point either way for the presidents is ridiculous. They should criticised for what they did or failed to do, but as for how many people turned up on their election day? Gimme a break.

The reason this came bakc leonhard is the issue of Trumps continuous non-stop lying while in office, of which this was one of the first, and there are still people that debate whether or not trumps claims about the crowd size were true or not.

My concern is his lack of capacity to prefer truth over what he would like to be true. And my point is that is a bad quality for a leader to have.


Jim

[Cow Poke]

If the crowd size is smaller for Trump than Obama, all that proves is...

A) Conservatives actually have jobs and not all of them could take off work
2) Conservatives are smarter and didn't want to get caught in the traffic mess

[Sparko]

It's the same data sparko. There is no conspiracy to try to make Trumps crowd size look smaller by using photos from other times. The most you could say is that the use of the Monument photo minimizes the apparent size, where as photos taken from the Capitol tend to maximize its apparent size.

Jim

To me there is clearly more people in the video than in the photo below, angle be damned.

time.jpg

All this is proving is that people have different opinions and evidence that supports both views. So to claim that Trump lied about it is a mischaracterization of the situation.

[Leonhard]

The reason this came bakc leonhard is the issue of Trumps continuous non-stop lying while in office, of which this was one of the first, and there are still people that debate whether or not trumps claims about the crowd size were true or not.

My concern is his lack of capacity to prefer truth over what he would like to be true. And my point is that is a bad quality for a leader to have.


Jim

You won't find me disagree that's Trump's complete disregard for truth is very worrisome and that people here like Cow Poke hand waving it away by going "You shouldn't take Trump seriously by what he says, but by what he means" are being a bit ridiculous, and I doubt they'd afford a democrat president the same interpretive leeway, even half of it.

However, all that standing, the crowd sizes just don't matter. Is Trump a narcissist who wants to waste air time about how big the crowd was at his inauguration? Yes. Are there news media who are trying to make it look like a lot fewer came to the inauguration than there did, especially papers not fond of them? Yes.

But does a crowd size tell you even indirectly whether a president is going to be good or not? Not really.

[Cow Poke]

You won't find me disagree that's Trump's complete disregard for truth is very worrisome and that people here like Cow Poke hand waving it away by going "You shouldn't take Trump seriously by what he says, but by what he means" ....

Hold on just a sec, brother! Actual cite, please.

[Charles]

To me there is clearly more people in the video than in the photo below, angle be damned.

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All this is proving is that people have different opinions and evidence that supports both views. So to claim that Trump lied about it is a mischaracterization of the situation.

You have been listening too much to those who rely on alternative facts and the idea that truth isn't truth.

[Sparko]

Is Trump a narcissist who wants to waste air time about how big the crowd was at his inauguration? Yes. Are there news media who are trying to make it look like a lot fewer came to the inauguration than there did, especially papers not fond of them? Yes.

But does a crowd size tell you even indirectly whether a president is going to be good or not? Not really.

Completely agree with all that



1. Trump exaggerated the crowd size larger than it was
2. The media downplayed the crowd size smaller than it was
3. Doesn't matter

My problem is that Ox and others are trying to make it out as some "Big Lie" on Trump's part. It's just a matter of perception and exaggeration. not lying.

And that list of Trump lies posted earlier is mostly nitpicking on Trump being wrong about something, or exaggerating about something using hyperbole or figures of speech, or promised to do but was unable to do because he was stopped, or matters of opinion. A lie is a deliberate falsehood meant to deceive someone. I would like a list of such lies that Trump has given. Stuff that matters.

[Leonhard]

Hold on just a sec, brother! Actual cite, please.

Oh come on whenever we talk about crazy exaggerations from him or obvious lies like when he claimed that the wall is being built, I heard time and time again from something to the effect of "Liberals should take Trump seriously, instead of literally".

Do you deny having actually used those words?

I'm looking back through the archives for the context, but I doubt I'll find anything other than Trump claiming he'll build the wall for ridiculously low figure and have Mexico pay for it (which I also saw people here claim would happen, since Mexico would have so much to lose in those trade deals he'd make). The search feature on TheologyWeb isn't all that good, as it only searches for single word matches. Trying to find a way to get it to search for multiple words.

1. Trump exaggerated the crowd size larger than it was
2. The media downplayed the crowd size smaller than it was
3. Doesn't matter

My problem is that Ox and others are trying to make it out as some "Big Lie" on Trump's part. It's just a matter of perception and exaggeration. not lying.

Agreed.

And that list of Trump lies posted earlier is mostly nitpicking on Trump being wrong about something, or exaggerating about something using hyperbole or figures of speech, or promised to do but was unable to do because he was stopped, or matters of opinion. A lie is a deliberate falsehood meant to deceive someone. I would like a list of such lies that Trump has given. Stuff that matters.

Yeah, no I disagree here. Its one thing to occasionally cite something wrong. Its another thing when pretty much every other sentence coming out of your mouth is an order of magnitude off. I think there's a list on Reddit somewhere with over three thousand wrong statements by Trump. I mean we can downplay it, sure, and just ignore it and just chug it up to Trump being Trump, and Trump just being someone who talks a lot without caring much about whether he gets it right or not (and just focus on the message or whatever it is you conservatives think we should be doing).

But there's no doubting that he's really careless about the truth.

[Leonhard]

I mean Cow Poke you even do it in this thread.

I mean, I can either get upset about every dumb thing Trump says, which sounds like it would be really bad for my health considering the frequency with which he says such things, or I can just shrug and say "yep, that was kind of dumb" and move on.

And take him seriously but not literally?

[Cow Poke]

Oh come on whenever we talk about crazy exaggerations from him or obvious lies like when he claimed that the wall is being built, I heard time and time again from something to the effect of "Liberals should take Trump seriously, instead of literally".

Do you deny having actually used those words?

You blew it WAY out of context, Leon, which is not characteristic of you.

Recently, I have said --

How many times do you have to be told - take Trump seriously, not literally.

And take him seriously but not literally?

That's it!

Note the smiley face and the "smug" face --- I did NOT Say ""You shouldn't take Trump seriously by what he says, but by what he means" -- that is your own fabrication, and, frankly, I'm surprised you're this loose with the truth.

If you're going to "quote" me, please use the quote function for my actual words, not your own distorted version of what I said.

[Cow Poke]

I mean Cow Poke you even do it in this thread.

That was a QUESTION, Leon, and I was being coy --

And take him seriously but not literally?

I did NOT say - as you reported -- ""You shouldn't take Trump seriously by what he says, but by what he means"

[Mountain Man]

To me there is clearly more people in the video than in the photo below, angle be damned.

I've been a professional videographer for 25-years, and I can tell you from first-hand experience that you can not use perspective tricks to make an empty space look like a full one, at least not in the way that is being suggested by liberal spin. In other words, you can't make this:

attachment.jpg

Look like this:

Screen Shot 2018-09-12 at 4.25.42 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-09-12 at 4.28.10 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-09-12 at 4.29.19 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-09-12 at 4.30.09 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-09-12 at 4.36.48 PM.jpg

simply by changing the perspective.

Yes, Obama's crowd was larger. Nobody has ever disputed that. However, Trump's crowd was far larger than has been falsely portrayed by the lying liars in the liberal media. To claim otherwise after looking at the pictures is nothing but pigheaded willful ignorance.

[Leonhard]

Note the smiley face and the "smug" face --- I did NOT Say ""You shouldn't take Trump seriously by what he says, but by what he means" -- that is your own fabrication, and, frankly, I'm surprised you're this loose with the truth.

I think you're right. I misquoted you. I apologise.

**lists two quotes** That's it!

During the election campaign and a bit after I'm pretty sure you used this quite a few times more. But I'll accept that by your testimony, recently - within these past few months, this is as many times as you've said it.

That was a QUESTION, Leon, and I was being coy --

Having been inaccurate I'm not sure I'm entitled to an answer on this, but I kinda wanna know Cow Poke. What do you mean by it? Because from my vantage point it really does like you're handwaving away Trump when he's being careless about the truth.

[Cow Poke]

I think you're right. I misquoted you. I apologise.

Accepted.

During the election campaign and a bit after I'm pretty sure you used this quite a few times more. But I'll accept that by your testimony, recently - within these past few months, this is as many times as you've said it.

RECENTLY, yes.... and when I used this expression, it was a quote from those who were explaining this is why he caught the Democrats off guard so completely - they were taking him literally, not seriously. They didn't think he had a prayer to win the Presidency.... same reason.

Having been inaccurate I'm not sure I'm entitled to an answer on this, but I kinda wanna know Cow Poke.

I have always treated you with respect and dignity, Leon, and it's not going to change because you slipped up.

What do you mean by it? Because from my vantage point it really does like you're handwaving away Trump when he's being careless about the truth.

He's a LIAR, Leon. We know that! He says things that are demonstrably false! Politicians do that. At the risk of triggering some of our "Whataboutists", Obama did it, but much more eloquently, and with the media's apparent forgiveness. People who hate Trump are going to see pretty much ANYTHING he says as a lie. But the promises he made that he kept -- SCOTUS, for example -- that's what's going to count 40 years from now.

While everybody's pitching fits and crying over ... WAANNNNHHHHHHH, Trump's a LIAR... there aren't too many politicians who are NOT liars --- including Kerry in the other thread.

So, while people are screaming about Trump being a liar, the things that matter most to me - like SCOTUS - are turning out pretty good.

It's almost like Trump does all this nutty stuff to keep the liberals off guard while he actually gets things done that actually matter.