World War Three?

[seanD]

They walked back his statement regarding Taiwan as well as his declaration that the pandemic is over. And this was during a scripted (old Joe's handler's require all questions be submitted in advance) softball interview for 60 Minutes where he made these unforced "errors."

Given that this is not the first time Joe has said this regarding defending Taiwan, and it always gets walked back, it is pretty clear that he is clueless regarding what "his" policy is and has little to no say in making it.

Which would seem to be further evidence that I was right about the Afghanistan pullout, and why I thought they were trying to set up Biden for a fall by intentionally making it look as bad as they could. The mistake I made apparently was grossly underestimating the incompetency of our military superiors, which sends chills down my spine.

[Teallaura]

Which would seem to be further evidence that I was right about the Afghanistan pullout, and why I thought they were trying to set up Biden for a fall by intentionally making it look as bad as they could. The mistake I made apparently was grossly underestimating the incompetency of our military superiors, which sends chills down my spine.

Um, even if this were true, I doubt Biden was the target. Milley is a more likely candidate.

I'm skeptical of the whole idea because I see no upside for anyone here.

[rogue06]

Back on topic, Putin ran out of poor kids to send to the slaughter, so time to roll out the lower-middle class for the chop. He probably thinks Jesus is on his side, so he must win, or some similarly twisted logic.

Yeah, the war is really hitting home now with reports of conscripts being rousted from bed in the middle of the night to keep them from joining the mass exodus out of Russia.

And you even get this on Newsweek: 'How to Break Arm' Becomes Top Google Trend as Russians Face Conscription


I'll admit, I'm kinda curious what was being advised.

[Ronson]

In the Putin TV address he sounded angry. For him, it was almost yelling. Things haven't been going his way.

[seanD]

Tit for tat nuclear threat talk between two superpowers just seems so blase. I kind of wish I was around during the Cuban missile crisis so I could gauge any differences between the two situations then and now. From what I've read about it, the public alarm level seems to have been much higher than it is in this situation.

[Ronson]

Tit for tat nuclear threat talk between two superpowers just seems so blase. I kind of wish I was around during the Cuban missile crisis so I could gauge any differences between the two situations then and now. From what I've read about it, the public alarm level seems to have been much higher than it is in this situation.

I've mentioned the book here before, but you might be interested in Breaking With Moscow by Arkady Shevchenko, the highest-ranked Soviet defector. I was surprised to learn that Khrushchev never had any intention of going toe-to-toe with the US over its missiles in Cuba. Never a nuclear issue for them.

But... I was more surprised to learn that the Soviets went into red alert over the Chinese invasion of Vietnam. That was the closest it came to firing nukes, and it didn't even involve us.

[seanD]

I've mentioned the book here before, but you might be interested in Breaking With Moscow by Arkady Shevchenko, the highest-ranked Soviet defector. I was surprised to learn that Khrushchev never had any intention of going toe-to-toe with the US over its missiles in Cuba. Never a nuclear issue for them.

But... I was more surprised to learn that the Soviets went into red alert over the Chinese invasion of Vietnam. That was the closest it came to firing nukes, and it didn't even involve us.

I'm more curious about the comparisons between the collective western attitude towards the two situations. It seems like (from what I've read about it) there was more panic and urgency about it back then. This is strange to me considering there are a whole lot more nuclear weapons today that are much more effective at killing mass populations. Maybe it's because those were the children of the Silent Generation -- coming off the Great Depression and WW2, and thus perceived threats and danger to civilization more acutely, whereas our culture has become decadent and numb to those perceptions.

[Ronson]

I'm more curious about the comparisons between the collective western attitude towards the two situations. It seems like (from what I've read about it) there was more panic and urgency about it back then. This is strange to me considering there are a whole lot more nuclear weapons today that are much more effective at killing mass populations. Maybe it's because those were the children of the Silent Generation -- coming off the Great Depression and WW2, and thus perceived threats and danger to civilization more acutely, whereas our culture has become decadent and numb to those perceptions.

Just a guess (as I was too young at the time to be aware) the Cuban Missile Crisis was huge from our perspective because, up to that time, the US felt quite secure from all the travails affecting Europe. My father told me that having nuclear missiles in Cuba was a sudden jolt to that sense of security, like having them in your backyard. We weren't used to that. So IMO it was a much bigger deal to us than it was to the Soviets from a false sense of security. They could still nuke us from submarines and ICBMs, so it wasn't an "end all." (although granted, Cuban missiles could hit us with relatively no warning)

[rogue06]

Just a guess (as I was too young at the time to be aware) the Cuban Missile Crisis was huge from our perspective because, up to that time, the US felt quite secure from all the travails affecting Europe. My father told me that having nuclear missiles in Cuba was a sudden jolt to that sense of security, like having them in your backyard. We weren't used to that. So IMO it was a much bigger deal to us than it was to the Soviets from a false sense of security. They could still nuke us from submarines and ICBMs, so it wasn't an "end all." (although granted, Cuban missiles could hit us with relatively no warning)

I wonder if that could be that many today just don't really comprehend what a nuclear weapon is and does along with a belief that if one gets used it will be -- over there.

[Gondwanaland]

Another mass grave found near one of the recaptured cities:
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/...16-p5bijm.html

Update:
https://www.news24.com/news24/world/...rture-20220923

Ukraine says 436 bodies exhumed at Izyum, 30 with 'signs of torture'

A Ukrainian official in the eastern Kharkiv region said Friday that 436 bodies were exhumed from a mass burial site near the eastern city of Izyum recaptured from Russian forces.

"Today, the exhumation of bodies from the mass grave in Izyum is being completed. A total of 436 bodies have been exhumed. Most of them have signs of violent death, and 30 have signs of torture. There are bodies with rope around their necks, with their hands tied, with broken limbs and gunshot wounds," the Kharkiv regional governor Oleg Synegubov said in a statement on social media.

Ukraine recaptured Izyum and other towns in the east this month, crippling Kremlin supply routes and bringing fresh claims of Russian atrocities with the discovery of hundreds of graves - some containing multiple bodies.

"Several men have had their genitals amputated. All this is evidence of the terrible torture to which the invaders subjected the inhabitants of Izyum," Synegubov added.

The Kremlin has denied its forces were responsible for large-scale killings in east Ukraine and accused Kyiv of fabricating its discoveries of mass graves in recaptured territory.

[rogue06]

Update:
https://www.news24.com/news24/world/...rture-20220923

If having a rope around their neck, hands tied with some having broken bones and gunshot wounds is the evidence of torture it is also evidence of having wounded prisoners taken in battle.

I'm definitely not saying that the Russians haven't been torturing prisoners, but that is very weak evidence.

[firstfloor]

Putin sympathizers in Italy, Sweden and USA are coming to the fore. Ukraine needs to push hard now before the clock runs out.

The neo-nazis in Italy are pro-Russia, Euroskeptic. They will likely be very friendly with the MAGA-GOP.

The world is turning upside-down. I don’t see a happy ending.

[Ronson]

If having a rope around their neck, hands tied with some having broken bones and gunshot wounds is the evidence of torture it is also evidence of having wounded prisoners taken in battle.

I'm definitely not saying that the Russians haven't been torturing prisoners, but that is very weak evidence.

In regard to gunshot wounds, I agree. But any corpse found to have been tied up with broken limbs would not appear to have been treated humanely.

[rogue06]

In regard to gunshot wounds, I agree. But any corpse found to have been tied up with broken limbs would not appear to have been treated humanely.

A lot of bones get broken in combat too from a wide range of causes. The rope around the neck could also be a leash.

[Ronson]

A lot of bones get broken in combat too from a wide range of causes. The rope around the neck could also be a leash.

What does the Geneva Convention say about unmarked mass graves? I can understand the need to bury the dead, and maybe even doing so en mass, but if the location isn't marked then it would appear to be an attempt to hide it.