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Hidden Pentagon Records Reveal Pattern Of Failures In Airstrikes

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  • Hidden Pentagon Records Reveal Pattern Of Failures In Airstrikes

    Deadly failures or ones with lifelong consequences for the innocents killed by our bombs with regularity due to a mix of horrendously bad Intel and surveillance teams being a hammer who sees nails wherever they look.

    Shortly before 3 a.m. on July 19, 2016, American Special Operations forces bombed what they believed were three ISIS “staging areas” on the outskirts of Tokhar, a riverside hamlet in northern Syria. They reported 85 fighters killed. In fact, they hit houses far from the front line, where farmers, their families and other local people sought nighttime sanctuary from bombing and gunfire. More than 120 villagers were killed.

    In early 2017 in Iraq, an American war plane struck a dark-colored vehicle, believed to be a car bomb, stopped at an intersection in the Wadi Hajar neighborhood of West Mosul. Actually, the car had been bearing not a bomb but a man named Majid Mahmoud Ahmed, his wife and their two children, who were fleeing the fighting nearby. They and three other civilians were killed.
    In November 2015, after observing a man dragging an “unknown heavy object” into an ISIS “defensive fighting position,” American forces struck a building in Ramadi, Iraq. A military review found that the object was actually “a person of small stature” — a child — who died in the strike.

    None of these deadly failures resulted in a finding of wrongdoing.

    These cases are drawn from a hidden Pentagon archive of the American air war in the Middle East since 2014.

    The trove of documents — the military’s own confidential assessments of more than 1,300 reports of civilian casualties, obtained by The New York Times — lays bare how the air war has been marked by deeply flawed intelligence, rushed and often imprecise targeting, and the deaths of thousands of civilians, many of them children, a sharp contrast to the American government’s image of war waged by all-seeing drones and precision bombs.

    The documents show, too, that despite the Pentagon’s highly codified system for examining civilian casualties, pledges of transparency and accountability have given way to opacity and impunity. In only a handful of cases were the assessments made public. Not a single record provided includes a finding of wrongdoing or disciplinary action. Fewer than a dozen condolence payments were made, even though many survivors were left with disabilities requiring expensive medical care. Documented efforts to identify root causes or lessons learned are rare.

    The air campaign represents a fundamental transformation of warfare that took shape in the final years of the Obama administration, amid the deepening unpopularity of the forever wars that had claimed more than 6,000 American service members. The United States traded many of its boots on the ground for an arsenal of aircraft directed by controllers sitting at computers, often thousands of miles away. President Barack Obama called it “the most precise air campaign in history.”

    This was the promise: America’s “extraordinary technology” would allow the military to kill the right people while taking the greatest possible care not to harm the wrong ones.

    The ISIS caliphate ultimately crumbled under the weight of American bombing. For years, American air power was crucial to the beleaguered Afghan government’s survival. And as U.S. combat deaths dwindled, the faraway wars, and their civilian tolls, receded from most Americans’ sights and minds.

    On occasion, stunning revelations have pierced the silence. A Times investigation found that a Kabul drone strike in August, which American officials said had destroyed a vehicle laden with bombs, had instead killed 10 members of one Afghan family. The Times recently reported that dozens of civilians had been killed in a2019 bombing in Syria that the military had hidden from public view. That strike was ordered by a top-secret strike cell called Talon Anvil that, according to people who worked with it, frequently sidestepped procedures meant to protect civilians. Talon Anvil executed a significant portion of the air war against ISIS in Syria.

    The Pentagon regularly publishes bare-bones summaries of civilian casualty incidents, and it recently ordered a new, high-level investigation of the 2019 Syria airstrike. But in the rare cases where failings are publicly acknowledged, they tend to be characterized as unfortunate, unavoidable and uncommon.

    In response to questions from The Times, Capt. Bill Urban, the spokesman for the U.S. Central Command, said that “even with the best technology in the world, mistakes do happen, whether based on incomplete information or misinterpretation of the information available. And we try to learn from those mistakes.” He added: “We work diligently to avoid such harm. We investigate each credible instance. And we regret each loss of innocent life.”

    He described minimizing the risk of harm to civilians as “a strategic necessity as well as a legal and moral imperative,” driven by the way these casualties are used “to feed the ideological hatred espoused by our enemies in the post 9/11 conflicts and supercharge the recruiting of the next generation of violent extremists.”

    Yet what the hidden documents show is that civilians have become the regular collateral casualties of a way of war gone badly wrong.

    To understand how this happened, The Times did what military officials admit they have not done: analyzed the casualty assessments in aggregate to discern patterns of failed intelligence, decision-making and execution. It also visited more than 100 casualty sites and interviewed scores of surviving residents and current and former American officials. In the coming days, the second part of this series will trace those journeys through the war zones of Iraq and Syria.

    Taken together, the reporting offers the most sweeping, and also the most granular, portrait of how the air war was prosecuted and investigated — and of its civilian toll.

    There is no way to determine that full toll, but one thing is certain: It is far higher than the Pentagon has acknowledged. According to the military’s count, 1,417 civilians have died in airstrikes in the campaign against ISIS in Iraq and Syria; since 2018 in Afghanistan, U.S. air operations have killed at least 188 civilians. But The Times’s analysis of the documents found that many allegations of civilian casualties had been summarily discounted, with scant evaluation. And the on-the-ground reporting — involving a sampling of cases dismissed, cases deemed “credible” and, in Afghanistan, cases not included in the trove of Pentagon documents — found hundreds of deaths uncounted.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...an-deaths.html

    It's a long but very good read on what our military has been doing in the middle East and what the Pentagon has been hiding - more in the link

  • #2
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
    Deadly failures or ones with lifelong consequences for the innocents killed by our bombs with regularity due to a mix of horrendously bad Intel and surveillance teams being a hammer who sees nails wherever they look.

    I can't think of any war or conflict where this doesn't happen.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by seer View Post


      I can't think of any war or conflict where this doesn't happen.
      If it does it should be extremely rare, not the norm. We are doing things very wrong for this to have become the norm.

      And when they do happen we shouldn't have to force and pry the info out of the government's grip over years.
      Last edited by Gondwanaland; 12-21-2021, 01:27 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

        If it does it should be extremely rare, not the norm. We are doing things very wrong for this to have become the norm.
        I don't know how - these are extremely fluid situations. And where was the mention of the thousands of innocent civilians purposely targeted and killed by ISIS or the Taliban? We had more stringent rules of engagement than any of the enemies we encountered in the last 21 years. War is horrible and messy....
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
          Deadly failures or ones with lifelong consequences for the innocents killed by our bombs with regularity due to a mix of horrendously bad Intel and surveillance teams being a hammer who sees nails wherever they look.


          https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...an-deaths.html

          It's a long but very good read on what our military has been doing in the middle East and what the Pentagon has been hiding - more in the link
          Another interesting excerpt on the confirmation bias, ignorance of the culture, and soldiers acting like its a video game.
          The documents, along with The Times’s ground reporting, illustrate the many, often disastrous ways the military’s predictions of the peril to civilians turn out to be wrong. Their lessons rarely learned, these breakdowns of intelligence and surveillance occur again and again.

          Repeatedly the documents point to the psychological phenomenon of “confirmation bias” — the tendency to search for and interpret information in a way that confirms a pre-existing belief. People streaming toward a fresh bombing site were assumed to be ISIS fighters, not civilian rescuers.

          Men on motorcycles moving “in formation,” displaying the “signature” of an imminent attack, were just men on motorcycles.

          Often, the danger to civilians is lost in the cultural gulf separating American soldiers and the local populace. “No civilian presence” was detected when, in fact, families were sleeping through the days of the Ramadan fast, sheltering inside against the midsummer swelter or gathering in a single house for protection when the fighting intensified.

          In many cases, civilians were visible in surveillance footage, but their presence was either not observed by analysts or was not noted in the communications before a strike. In chat logs accompanying some assessments, soldiers can sound as if they are playing video games, in one case expressing glee over getting to fire in an area ostensibly “poppin” with ISIS fighters — without spotting the children in their midst.

          The military spokesman, Captain Urban, pointed out that, “In many combat situations, where targeteers face credible threat streams and do not have the luxury of time, the fog of war can lead to decisions that tragically result in civilian harm.”

          Indeed, the Pentagon records detail how in Mosul in 2016, three civilians were killed when a bomb aimed at one car instead struck three — in part because the military official approving the strike had decided to save more-precise weapons for other, imminent strikes. Yet The Times’s analysis of the documents and ground reporting showed that civilians were frequently killed in airstrikes planned well in advance.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post

            I don't know how - these are extremely fluid situations.
            Sorry that's not an excuse. See my other excerpt


            And where was the mention of the thousands of innocent civilians purposely targeted and killed by ISIS or the Taliban?
            you put that forth as if you believe that is some type of justification

            The mention wasntbthere because it is an in depth piece about the US, our military incompetence, and attempts by the Pentagon to hide it.

            We had more stringent rules of engagement than any of the enemies
            and yet many tines don't follow them, or do so with pure incompetence.

            we encountered in the last 21 years. War is horrible and messy....
            Again, not an excuse. Stop trying to defend it and make excuses, you honestly look like a monster.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
              Sorry that's not an excuse. See my other excerpt
              Not an excuse, a fact. Did you serve in the Military?

              you put that forth as if you believe that is some type of justification
              Did we, in the end, even with all of our mistakes, save more civilian lives than what were lost? I would say in the case of ISIS that would be a definite yes...

              The mention wasntbthere because it is an in depth piece about the US, our military incompetence, and attempts by the Pentagon to hide it.
              There were such mistakes in WW2 that the Pentagon never owned up to. Marines in the Pacific almost always shot surrendering Japanese soldiers.

              and yet many tines don't follow them, or do so with pure incompetence.
              We are flawed human beings...

              Again, not an excuse. Stop trying to defend it and make excuses, you honestly look like a monster.
              No, I deal with reality.

              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post

                Not an excuse, a fact. Did you serve in the Military?
                Yes, I did. Still not an excuse.

                Did we, in the end, even with all of our mistakes, save more civilian lives than what were lost? I would say in the case of ISIS that would be a definite yes...
                No. We did not. And that's not even addressing the fact that we are responsible for Isis' formation in the first place.

                There were such mistakes in WW2 that the Pentagon never owned up to. Marines in the Pacific almost always shot surrendering Japanese soldiers.
                appeal to history isn't your best look here.


                We are flawed human beings...
                Another attempted justification

                No, I deal with reality.
                No, you deal with irrational licking of the military boot, it appears.

                And watching you as you do so is almost as horrifying as watching H_A trying to claim that all atrocities are exclactly the same from a single murder to the holocaust. Thats how bizarre your posts appear
                Last edited by Gondwanaland; 12-21-2021, 02:25 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                  Yes, I did. Still not an excuse.
                  Again, it is not an excuse, it is a fact. War is never as black and white or controlled as we may like. Of course better training always helps.


                  No. We did not. And that's not even addressing the fact that we are responsible for Isis' formation in the first place.
                  Yes we did, do you remember how many civilians ISIS was murdering. And we did not form ISIS. It was first constituted in 1999.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State

                  appeal to history isn't your best look here.
                  The point is, this is nothing new...

                  Another attempted justification
                  No, just another appeal to reality...


                  No, you deal with irrational licking of the military boot, it appears.
                  OK, I'm done with your inane moral virtue signaling...
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post

                    Again, it is not an excuse, it is a fact. War is never as black and white or controlled as we may like. Of course better training always helps.
                    It's an attempt to excuse what happened.


                    Yes we did, do you remember how many civilians ISIS was murdering.
                    No, we didn't.

                    And we did not form ISIS. It was first constituted in 1999.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State
                    And would have died out not long after had we not given them over a decade of recruiting material, destroyed the local governments, and destabilized the region. If you can't even accept the US' responsibility for the rise of ISIS, well, the


                    The point is, this is nothing new...
                    Yes, an appeal to history fallacy in order to try to justify current wrongdoing. Pathetic.



                    No, just another appeal to reality...




                    OK, I'm done with your inane moral virtue signaling...
                    It's certainly interesting watching Christians (especially 'pro-life' ones who claim to be about protecting innocent lives - apparently that ends when it comes to people of other countries and races....) like yourself attempt to defend and justify such atrocities, whilst also proclaiming themselves and their religion as the arbiters and originators of morality, rather than accept that we have been doing atrocious things and need serious change to our armed forces to make such events rare, rather than the common everyday event.

                    I wouldn't be remotely surprised if you similarly defended our use of 'enhanced interrogation', either. Lick that military boot.
                    Last edited by Gondwanaland; 12-21-2021, 04:44 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                      Deadly failures or ones with lifelong consequences for the innocents killed by our bombs with regularity due to a mix of horrendously bad Intel and surveillance teams being a hammer who sees nails wherever they look.


                      https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...an-deaths.html

                      It's a long but very good read on what our military has been doing in the middle East and what the Pentagon has been hiding - more in the link
                      You're not really going to make that much of a mark with this. There are conservatives against warmongering that agree with your sentiment, while there are other conservatives still pretty gungho about the military campaigns since the Bush era. The mark you can make is pointing out the trillions in wasted money on these failed campaigns, particularly the trillions that have apparently "gone missing" in the Pentagon coffers. That's the elephant in the room IMO, and might get their attention.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post

                        You're not really going to make that much of a mark with this.
                        Sadly true
                        There are conservatives against warmongering that agree with your sentiment, while there are other conservatives still pretty gungho about the military campaigns since the Bush era. The mark you can make is pointing out the trillions in wasted money on these failed campaigns, particularly the trillions that have apparently "gone missing" in the Pentagon coffers. That's the elephant in the room IMO, and might get their attention.
                        I sadly doubt it. These are folks that are just fine spending exhorbitant amounts of money on the defense budget, and threw fits when Obama even mentioned cutting the defense budget, I doubt it will even phase them. Especially the folks who spent years defending torture - there's no depths they won't go to to defend the military-industrial complex.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                          Sadly true


                          I sadly doubt it. These are folks that are just fine spending exhorbitant amounts of money on the defense budget, and threw fits when Obama even mentioned cutting the defense budget, I doubt it will even phase them. Especially the folks who spent years defending torture - there's no depths they won't go to to defend the military-industrial complex.
                          The focus shouldn't so much be just on how much congress spends. There are two ways to get their attention in this regard:

                          - As I pointed out, the illegitimate trillions that have somehow "disappeared" in the Pentagon hole, which suggests lack of accountability of tax dollars and potential corruption and malfeasance with those tax dollars.
                          - The legitimate spent trillions by an incompetent and inept military institution (this brings up the argument of why we're spending so much money with nothing but a history of failed campaigns to show for it?).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seanD View Post

                            The focus shouldn't so much be just on how much congress spends. There are two ways to get their attention in this regard:

                            - As I pointed out, the illegitimate trillions that have somehow "disappeared" in the Pentagon hole, which suggests lack of accountability of tax dollars and potential corruption and malfeasance with those tax dollars.
                            - The legitimate spent trillions by an incompetent and inept military institution (this brings up the argument of why we're spending so much money with nothing but a history of failed campaigns to show for it?).
                            But the problem is they can't even admit the institution is incompetent and inept when it regularly kills innocent people due to said incompitence, so I don't see them admitting such a thing wrt money.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                              But the problem is they can't even admit the institution is incompetent and inept when it regularly kills innocent people due to said incompitence, so I don't see them admitting such a thing wrt money.
                              The afghan debacle I think was an eyeopener. Though some tried to get all partisan and blame Biden, that doesn't really make much sense. Even that military dude they threw in prison for the video he made blamed the military heads for their incompetence. Plus, you can't really blame Biden for a failed campaign that lasted almost two decades.

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