Manchin says no, leftist heads explode...

[Terraceth]

Waves tend to occur because opposition voters are more motivated in non-presidential elections, and if the president isn't popular many people on the fence will vote for the other party to give them 'a turn'.

While it is true that the president's party almost always loses seats in the House of Representatives during midterms, I don't think the claim that "if the president isn't popular" is accurate. Some very popular presidents had losses in their midterms. FDR was extremely popular, but in two of his three midterms, his party lost seats. (his party lost seats in his fourth midterm too, but he died beforehand, making Truman president, so that's not really reflective on FDR)

Reagan won crushing victories in his election and especially re-election, but his party still lost seats in the House in both midterms. Nixon won handily in his first election and even more handily in his second, but the Republicans still lost seats during his first midterm. Also his second, but he had lost a lot of popularity due to the scandals and he wasn't actually president when the midterms rolled around due to resigning a few months beforehand.

So I don't think it really has that much to do with the president's popularity. Even really popular presidents lost seats in the House in midterms.

[CivilDiscourse]

A majority of elected representatives, sure. It's hugely popular among the US population in polling though.

Not according to NPR. https://www.npr.org/2021/12/10/10628...messaging-woes

[CivilDiscourse]

Omar, Sanders slam Manchin for rejecting Build Back Better: ‘I think it’s bull

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/oma...ld-back-better

My favorite are the people who are saying "This is why we shouldn't have split the infrastructure bill from the rest of BBB."

Those people are working under the assumption that together both bills would have passed instead of both bills failing.

It's also a tacit admission that the BBB isn't popular enough to pass on it's own merits.

[seer]

Sanders is more popular among Republican voters than Biden, but they don't vote in the Dem primary. Also Obama and the MSM convinced everyone that Biden was more "electable" against Trump than Sanders and Dem voters are used to being told they have to compromise on their personal preferences in the name of 'electability'.

If Sanders was so popular his electability wouldn't have been questionable. Perhaps he isn't as popular as you suggest.

[rogue06]

Biden has turned out to be a bad president. Can't say I'm surprised, as that's what I was expecting and predicting. As I said at the time, the Dems would have been vastly better nominating Bernie Sanders - he remains today the most popular major US political figure in polling.

Not sure that anyone cares about your TYT-echoing opinion given that you declared "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done"

[rogue06]

A majority of elected representatives, sure. It's hugely popular among the US population in polling though.

The US should try actual democracy some time, and experiment with actually passing some popular legislation instead of just letting the servants of the elites, like Manchin and the Republicans, veto popular bills.

When it was first proposed it enjoyed strong support but then Americans saw the price tag and the support started shrinking as fast old Joe's approval rating. The last I saw was support for it in the low 40s.

Now I'm sure you can fabricate a way that a little over 40% support means it is popular and that the public wants it but for the rest of us in reality, that is an indication that it isn't popular legislation.

[Cow Poke]

When it was first proposed it enjoyed strong support but then Americans saw the price tag and the support started shrinking as fast old Joe's approval rating. The last I saw was support for it in the low 40s.

Now I'm sure you can fabricate a way that a little over 40% support means it is popular and that the public wants it but for the rest of us in reality, that is an indication that it isn't popular legislation.

When Americans saw some of the really nutty overreach in the bill, only the extreme left greenies were still in favor of it.

[rogue06]

If he is the most popular politician how come he couldn't even get the Democrat nomination?

In 2016 it may very well be due to the party that claims they want every vote to count showed what a lie that is when they rigged primaries to ensure that the candidate that the party elites had selected to win -- Hillary -- would get the most delegates from a state even if she lost the election. And let's not forget how the DNC passed debate questions to Hillary in advance so that she had time to come up with a good answer (and yet she still didn't do that well in the debates against Sanders).

IOW, the Democrats rigged their primaries so that Hillary would be the party's nominee regardless who the rank and file members actually voted for.

[Cow Poke]

In 2016 it may very well be due to the party that claims they want every vote to count showed what a lie that is when they rigged primaries to ensure that the candidate that the party elites had selected to win -- Hillary -- would get the most delegates from a state even if she lost the election. And let's not forget how the DNC passed debate questions to Hillary in advance so that she had time to come up with a good answer (and yet she still didn't do that well in the debates against Sanders).

IOW, the Democrats rigged their primaries so that Hillary would be the party's nominee regardless who the rank and file members actually voted for.

Yeah, the superdelegates, or whatever.

[seer]

In 2016 it may very well be due to the party that claims they want every vote to count showed what a lie that is when they rigged primaries to ensure that the candidate that the party elites had selected to win -- Hillary -- would get the most delegates from a state even if she lost the election. And let's not forget how the DNC passed debate questions to Hillary in advance so that she had time to come up with a good answer (and yet she still didn't do that well in the debates against Sanders).

IOW, the Democrats rigged their primaries so that Hillary would be the party's nominee regardless who the rank and file members actually voted for.

If the Dems only played fair, Sanders would surely have been President!

[Cow Poke]

If Manchin was saying "no" for political reasons, one would think he would have FAR more to gain by a "soft no", where Joe's handlers would do everything in their power to buy him.

It sounds like a pretty hard "no", though.

[rogue06]

If the Dems only played fair, Sanders would surely have been President!

Not inconceivable given that one of the biggest worries about Trump revolved around ethics. Hillary had far more serious concerns about that so folks really didn't have a choice. But Sanders is regarded as being pretty clean (at least for a politician). A lot of folks who wouldn't vote for Hillary might have voted for Sanders.

[seer]

Not inconceivable given that one of the biggest worries about Trump revolved around ethics. Hillary had far more serious concerns about that so folks really didn't have a choice. But Sanders is regarded as being pretty clean (at least for a politician). A lot of folks who wouldn't vote for Hillary might have voted for Sanders.

On the other hand he may have been too socialistic for many Independents...