"It’s dehumanizing"

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

How interesting that most of the responses so far have been from those who will never find themselves pregnant.

The view that banning abortion entirely will also "make it go away" is another ludicrously naive belief. However, at least on this thread it seems that patriarchy rules!

[One Bad Pig]

That is way over the top Sparko. Especially wrt a secular government. There is no way to justify - in terms of secular, scientific reasoning, considering the early phases of pregnancy as more than a developing but as yet unrealized human being.

Show me a secular, scientific reasoning justifying the prohibition of murder.

[Sparko]

That is way over the top Sparko. Especially wrt a secular government. There is no way to justify - in terms of secular, scientific reasoning, considering the early phases of pregnancy as more than a developing but as yet unrealized human being. This view is strictly a religious perspective, just as the Jewish view that the baby is not a soul until it takes it's first breath is strictly a religious view, since there is no physical justification for it either.

You are wrong Ox. It is a purely scientific view. A new human organism starts at conception. Biology 101. You are the one trying to make it religious bringing up souls.

[Sparko]

How interesting that most of the responses so far have been from those who will never find themselves pregnant.

The view that banning abortion entirely will also "make it go away" is another ludicrously naive belief. However, at least on this thread it seems that patriarchy rules!

I identify as pregnant.

[Christianbookworm]

It's not the baby's fault for having an evil father.

[CivilDiscourse]

How interesting that most of the responses so far have been from those who will never find themselves pregnant.

The view that banning abortion entirely will also "make it go away" is another ludicrously naive belief. However, at least on this thread it seems that patriarchy rules!

It's not surprising at all.

You posted this in a forum that, from all accounts, is populated by a likely vast majority of people who cannot get pregnant.

You might as well get surprised that most of the responses so far will be from Americans or Christians...

[Christianbookworm]

I probably couldn't even if I tried. I'll just mom the kids at church.

[oxmixmudd]

The way I see it is that the talk about "rape/incest" is really emotional cudgels trying to argue for the whole based on the exception.

I see no legitimate argument that does not consider them valid and legitimate exceptions to any moral imperative in that it make the woman a victim twice over. What is perhaps the 'emotional cudgel' is trying to extend those legitimate exceptions into justifying abortion as birth control throughout the complete pregnancy.

What talk of rape/incest does do is give us a window into the rationality of of the person (or lawmaking body) that is advocating against abortion (just as late term abortion debate give us a window into the rationality of those that are pro-choice). Since these are legitimate exceptions worthy of discussion, and since a woman pregnant by incest or rape is the victim of a violent crime, people willing to dismiss them out of hand are not fully rational wrt their position, and likely have lost most or all empathy for said victim.

You might ask what would I do faced with such a tradgedy? At this point in my life, I would not abort the child. But that does not mean I would take away that possibility for someone else not able to bear such a consequence. It means living every single day for the rest of you live with a reminder of a horrible crime. And not everyone is equipped to do that.

You might ask what about adoption? And I would ask back these things - are you and others like you willing to bear the cost of that adoption - e,g, the cost of the emotional and psychological care the woman will require, and the cost of restoring to the victim the life and educational possibilities or work opportunities lost by being forced to carry the baby to term, the cost of care for the child until someone adopts it?

[seer]

How interesting that most of the responses so far have been from those who will never find themselves pregnant.

The view that banning abortion entirely will also "make it go away" is another ludicrously naive belief. However, at least on this thread it seems that patriarchy rules!

The patriarchy does rule, the way nature intended.

[CivilDiscourse]

I would submit that is because you can not be threatened with a rape event or incest that can produce a pregnancy. They are valid and legitimate exceptions to any moral imperative in that it make the woman a victim twice over. What is the 'emotional cudgel' is trying to extend that legitimate exception into justifying abortion as birth control.

What talk of rape/incest does do it give us a window into the rationality of of the person (or lawmaking body) we are talking about. Since these are legitimate exceptions worthy of discussion, and since a woman pregnant by incest or rape is the victim of a violent crime, people willing to dismiss them out of hand are both not fully rational and also have lost most or all empathy for said victim.

And there's the cudgel I just mentioned.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

The patriarchy does rule, the way nature intended.

There is nothing "natural" about patriarchy however much you may wish it was so.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Show me a secular, scientific reasoning justifying the prohibition of murder.

That is an emotive contention. It also ignores the fact that killing is accepted [and sometimes even condoned] within other circumstances.

[rogue06]

How interesting that most of the responses so far have been from those who will never find themselves pregnant.

The view that banning abortion entirely will also "make it go away" is another ludicrously naive belief. However, at least on this thread it seems that patriarchy rules!

The pro-abortion crowd loves to play the men-shouldn't-have-a-say-in-this-because-they-don't-get-pregnant card except when a nearly all male Supreme Court legalized abortion. Suddenly they didn't mind men having a say at all.

Moreover, the polls have been shown that women favor tighter restrictions on abortions at a higher rate than men, so I'm all for letting the women hash it out

[rogue06]

Correction: the all-male SCOTUS

[Sparko]

There is nothing "natural" about patriarchy however much you may wish it was so.

Why is that? If we do it, it is "natural" isn't it? Just like in the animal world. We are not different are we?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You are wrong Ox. It is a purely scientific view. A new human organism starts at conception. Biology 101. You are the one trying to make it religious bringing up souls.

That potential life begins at conception is not really the issue. The issue is whether a woman should be told what she can and cannot do with her body if she is raped or if her contraception fails.

And as a matter of interest how many men replying to this thread have volunteered to adopt upward of five or more unwanted babies to rear as their own? You all have millions to save, don't you?