The USA and "Anglo-Saxon traditions".

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

interesting....
Calvados---made in France in 911 ...!!..

Apparently apples originate from Central Asia---around Kazakhstan. So the signature dish of the U.S. is made from fruit from C.Asia---seems fitting....

As American as Apple Pie takes on a whole new subtext!

[CivilDiscourse]

Also...if we define "culture" loosely and include those aspects that formed as a reaction---then U.S. gun "culture" and Movies such as American "Westerns" might qualify as reactionary culture to the presence of Native Americans?...If so, one might at least be able to point to indirect influence?

Here, you'd be really stretch what was meant by "influence" to get to there. At this point, it no longer means what it would have meant in the original suggestion. (I.E. Our culture has taken parts of thier culture and integrated it into our own).

[CivilDiscourse]

True---but that would be because European-American "immigrants" refused to "assimilate" to the "original" cultures and instead insisted on following their own----an issue some of them complain about when other immigrants try to do the same....?

Let's be specific. The settlers were not immigrants they were colonizers. They didn't come to join the country that was here, they sought to make here part of thier country. That's a big and different mindset.

But if we take what you say at face value, you just showed the danger of not requiring assimilation.

[siam]

There are also numerous mainland European recipes that use apples including alcoholic drinks such as Cider and Calvados.

I understand that Applejack is similar in some respects to Calvados.

interesting....
Calvados---made in France in 911 ...!!..

Apparently apples originate from Central Asia---around Kazakhstan. So the signature dish of the U.S. is made from fruit from C.Asia---seems fitting....

[siam]

The indigenous peoples might have been the first cultures in NA, but, given our history, you would be hard pressed to say much of our culture came from them.

True---but that would be because European-American "immigrants" refused to "assimilate" to the "original" cultures and instead insisted on following their own----an issue some of them complain about when other immigrants try to do the same.....?....

Also...if we define "culture" loosely and include those aspects that formed as a reaction---then U.S. gun "culture" and Movies such as American "Westerns" might qualify as reactionary culture to the presence of Native Americans?...If so, one might at least be able to point to indirect influence?

[rogue06]

The indigenous peoples might have been the first cultures in NA, but, given our history, you would be hard pressed to say much of our culture came from them.

It definitely had some influences -- especially for those on the frontiers. For those in the large cities... not so much.

Awhile back there was an attempt to highlight these influences which unfortunately led to numerous wild exaggerations and outright false claims -- like the one that the Constitution is largely grounded in concepts expressed by the "Seven Nations" or Iroquois Confederacy.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

One similarity between British food culture and American food culture is the use of apples for desert?---apple crumble and apple pie...?.... was one influenced by the other?...anyone know?

There are also numerous mainland European recipes that use apples including alcoholic drinks such as Cider and Calvados.

I understand that Applejack is similar in some respects to Calvados.

[CivilDiscourse]

Native Amercians/First Nations---Yes, it seems so...but if we use that argument---then Europeans in Europe are also immigrants---after all, we all migrated from Africa?

Original culture---I still maintain that the original culture is that of NA/FN peoples. Some cultural "myths" may be encouraged/sponsored by the government---the government housing policy gave European-Americans wealth/assets that advantaged them over non-whites...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...white-suburbia
...which in turn led to other myths such as "the American dream" and "hard work as the road to success"...etc. The whole WASP "cultural image"---house, car, wife at home, happy kids ---was a feel-good story.

One could also say, influences originated from non-WASP sources but became "American" (European-American) when they adopted/appropriated it?.... Surfing (Hawaii,) Jazz (African-American), Cajun food (French) Creole food (mixed)...and so much more....
Even the wars fought by the U.S. ---including the "American" Revolution had major contributions from African-Americans and Native-Americans--though these are not celebrated to the extent the "Anglo-Saxon" (Wasp) achievements are...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa...cated%20troops.

IMO, European-Americans have done a good job of mixing various cultural influences to come up with an image/ideal that is distinctively "American". Speaking as someone outside of the U.S.---I like Hollywood movies and "American" music. American creativity belongs to all groups of peoples and it would be a disservice to attribute it to just one group as a feel-good myth/story.

The indigenous peoples might have been the first cultures in NA, but, given our history, you would be hard pressed to say much of our culture came from them.

[siam]

What "British" traditions do you consider would have been found among the Jamestown settlers? And how many of the first settlers came from Scotland or Ireland?

One similarity between British food culture and American food culture is the use of apples for desert?---apple crumble and apple pie...?.... was one influenced by the other?...anyone know?

[siam]

Native Americans are also immigrants. They just came earlier.

And this is a discussion about the culture of the U.S.A., which without Europeans wouldn't exist. And the original culture of the U.S.A. has its foundation in Anglo-Saxon, or if you prefer, British, tradition.

Native Amercians/First Nations---Yes, it seems so...but if we use that argument---then Europeans in Europe are also immigrants---after all, we all migrated from Africa?

Original culture---I still maintain that the original culture is that of NA/FN peoples. Some cultural "myths" may be encouraged/sponsored by the government---the government housing policy gave European-Americans wealth/assets that advantaged them over non-whites...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...white-suburbia
...which in turn led to other myths such as "the American dream" and "hard work as the road to success"...etc. The whole WASP "cultural image"---house, car, wife at home, happy kids ---was a feel-good story.

One could also say, influences originated from non-WASP sources but became "American" (European-American) when they adopted/appropriated it?.... Surfing (Hawaii,) Jazz (African-American), Cajun food (French) Creole food (mixed)...and so much more....
Even the wars fought by the U.S. ---including the "American" Revolution had major contributions from African-Americans and Native-Americans--though these are not celebrated to the extent the "Anglo-Saxon" (Wasp) achievements are...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa...cated%20troops.

IMO, European-Americans have done a good job of mixing various cultural influences to come up with an image/ideal that is distinctively "American". Speaking as someone outside of the U.S.---I like Hollywood movies and "American" music. American creativity belongs to all groups of peoples and it would be a disservice to attribute it to just one group as a feel-good myth/story.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Jamestown was in Virginia, earlier Spanish attempts failed and disappeared and folks had been moving into the Carolinas from other colonies for various reasons well before Hyde and his buddies obtained an official charter from Charles II to settle it.

What "British" traditions do you consider would have been found among the Jamestown settlers? And how many of the first settlers came from Scotland or Ireland?

[rogue06]

I note the dodge with the attendant [should I use the word "whining"?] excuse.



The settlement of the Carolinas was [if I am not mistaken] during the mid seventeenth century. What about Jamestown? Or those early attempts by Raleigh in the late sixteenth century?

Or the Spanish on the west coast?

Jamestown was in Virginia, earlier Spanish attempts failed and disappeared and folks had been moving into the Carolinas from other colonies for various reasons well before Hyde and his buddies obtained an official charter from Charles II to settle it.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

If you had ever asked a sincere question in all of my experience in dealing with you rather than just snipe and cavil about the smallest of things, I'd take the time to write a few paragraphs regarding this, but given who and what you are, saying that the traditions the British settlers had when they first colonized the land are those traditions will suffice.

I note the dodge with the attendant [should I use the word "whining"?] excuse.

And I use "British" because there was a fair percentage of Scots and Welsh aboard those ships carrying English settlers. In fact the Carolinas were largely settled by the Scots (along with some Irish).

The settlement of the Carolinas was [if I am not mistaken] during the mid seventeenth century. What about Jamestown? Or those early attempts by Raleigh in the late sixteenth century?

Or the Spanish on the west coast?

[rogue06]

What are these "British" traditions of which you wrote? And I note that you have used the word "British" as opposed to "English".

If you had ever asked a sincere question in all of my experience in dealing with you rather than just snipe and cavil about the smallest of things, I'd take the time to write a few paragraphs regarding this, but given who and what you are, saying that the traditions the British settlers had when they first colonized the land are those traditions will suffice.

And I use "British" because there was a fair percentage of Scots and Welsh aboard those ships carrying English settlers. In fact the Carolinas were largely settled by the Scots (along with some Irish).

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I guess I should have continued using quotation marks around the word British and the like so that it wouldn't confuse you.

What are these "British" traditions of which you wrote? And I note that you have used the word "British" as opposed to "English".