George H. W. Bush voting for Clinton

[shunyadragon]

Who do you consider a great president in recent times?

Franklin D. Roosevelt, Kennedy, and possibly but not great I liked Truman.

[Tassman]

Nobody is denying that Trump was the standard bearer for the birther movement for several years but now many liberals and the MSM have been busy pretending that the Clinton campaign wasn't the one who initially popularized the birther movement (based on lies and innuendo)

The "birther issue" was briefly raised by a fringe element during the Clinton campaign of 2008...but it wasn't "popularised" by them. Most people had never heard of it until Trump popularised it...and kept on keeping on with it until recently, when he mysteriously dropped it.

in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and if it hadn't been for that there wouldn't have a birther question for Trump to have latched onto in the first place.

Given that there was indeed one can only wonder why Trump picked it up in the first place and ran with it for so many years. But I think we can guess. Actual facts mean little to Donald J Trump what with his deceitful practice of "truthful hyperbole", i.e. code for "lying through his teeth".

[rogue06]

The "birther issue" was briefly raised by a fringe element during the Clinton campaign of 2008

Pretend to the contrary all you want but Sidney Blumenthal was anything but a fringe element. He is part of the Clintonista inner circle.

[Tassman]

Pretend to the contrary all you want but Sidney Blumenthal was anything but a fringe element. He is part of the Clintonista inner circle.

The main issue is that Donald J Trump took the Barack Obama citizenship conspiracy theories, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and promoted them for many years embellishing them all the while with a series of outrageous lies for which he has yet to apologise.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/09/po...trump-birther/

[robrecht]

Pretend to the contrary all you want but Sidney Blumenthal was anything but a fringe element. He is part of the Clintonista inner circle.

I haven't followed all the details of this so correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that Blumenthal merely wanted the press to look into this issue. Is that correct? Whereas Trump claimed to be funding his own investigation which he claimed was finding amazing things that he would make public but of course he never did because there was nothing there. After the press had looked into this, he was basically stoking the fires of conspiracy theorists and the Republican base that wanted a reason to reject our first African American president. You don't really respect Trump's role in this, correct?

[shunyadragon]

I haven't followed all the details of this so correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that Blumenthal merely wanted the press to look into this issue. Is that correct? Whereas Trump claimed to be funding his own investigation which he claimed was finding amazing things that he would make public but of course he never did because there was nothing there. After the press had looked into this, he was basically stoking the fires of conspiracy theorists and the Republican base that wanted a reason to reject our first African American president. You don't really respect Trump's role in this, correct?

Correct!!!

[shunyadragon]

Pretend to the contrary all you want but Sidney Blumenthal was anything but a fringe element. He is part of the Clintonista inner circle.

. . . but what is documented that Blumenthal actually did other than request the press to look into it.

[rogue06]

Sheesh folks, the fact is that the birther movement started in the Clinton campaign. Nobody is denying that Trump was the standard bearer for it for several years. But what has been vehemently denied^[1] is its roots in the Clinton campaign and the simple fact if it weren't for that fact Trump would never had that issue to glom onto in the first place.























1. Although it now looks like that is slowly changing into a defense of "merely" starting a campaign of innuendo and rumor by Hillary's right hand man.

[robrecht]

Sheesh folks, the fact is that the birther movement started in the Clinton campaign. Nobody is denying that Trump was the standard bearer for it for several years. But what has been vehemently denied^[1] is its roots in the Clinton campaign and the simple fact if it weren't for that fact Trump would never had that issue to glom onto in the first place.

1. Although it now looks like that is slowly changing into a defense of "merely" starting a campaign of innuendo and rumor by Hillary's right hand man.

I get that, but you have not answered the question I asked you. Now, a new question, when Trump suggested that President Obama was probably in some way supportive of terrorist attacks in the United States, did you respect that kind of innuendo? Do you think that whatever role Hillary's campaign and supporters might have played in questioning Obama's place of birth was nearly as outrageous as Trump's suggestion? Do you respect Trump for the way he has behaved?

[Mountain Man]

I haven't followed all the details of this so correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that Blumenthal merely wanted the press to look into this issue. Is that correct? Whereas Trump claimed to be funding his own investigation which he claimed was finding amazing things that he would make public but of course he never did because there was nothing there. After the press had looked into this, he was basically stoking the fires of conspiracy theorists and the Republican base that wanted a reason to reject our first African American president. You don't really respect Trump's role in this, correct?

You're downplaying Hillary's involvement by ignoring the collusion that happens between the liberal press and the Democrat party. When a high-ranking Democrat and member of the Clinton inner-circle suggests that the press should "look into" a story, in this case Obama's birth, that's effectively a direct order to take him out. What Blumenthal didn't anticipate is that the press would like Obama more than they liked Hillary.

[robrecht]

You're downplaying Hillary's involvement by ignoring the collusion that happens between the liberal press and the Democrat party. When a high-ranking Democrat and member of the Clinton inner-circle suggests that the press should "look into" a story, in this case Obama's birth, that's effectively a direct order to take him out. What Blumenthal didn't anticipate is that the press would like Obama more than they liked Hillary.

No, I am merely trying to ask Rogue a question about his view of Trump's role. Blumenthal could have pursued the same tack that Trump did later, regardless of one's view of a media conspiracy.

[Tassman]

I haven't followed all the details of this so correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that Blumenthal merely wanted the press to look into this issue. Is that correct? Whereas Trump claimed to be funding his own investigation which he claimed was finding amazing things that he would make public but of course he never did because there was nothing there. After the press had looked into this, he was basically stoking the fires of conspiracy theorists and the Republican base that wanted a reason to reject our first African American president. You don't really respect Trump's role in this, correct?

[shunyadragon]

Sheesh folks, the fact is that the birther movement started in the Clinton campaign. Nobody is denying that Trump was the standard bearer for it for several years. But what has been vehemently denied^[1] is its roots in the Clinton campaign and the simple fact if it weren't for that fact Trump would never had that issue to glom onto in the first place.

Several?!?!?! You mean looong five years.























1. Although it now looks like that is slowly changing into a defense of "merely" starting a campaign of innuendo and rumor by Hillary's right hand man.[/QUOTE]

[shunyadragon]

Sheesh folks, the fact is that the birther movement started in the Clinton campaign. Nobody is denying that Trump was the standard bearer for it for several years. But what has been vehemently denied^[1] is its roots in the Clinton campaign and the simple fact if it weren't for that fact Trump would never had that issue to glom onto in the first place.

Trumps trumpeting it for FIVE years with phony references does not need any help from anyone else.

1. Although it now looks like that is slowly changing into a defense of "merely" starting a campaign of innuendo and rumor by Hillary's right hand man.

You have failed to demonstrate the Blomenthal did anything more that ask some member or members of press to look into the issue. There is no evidence that Hillary privately nor publicly endorsed the fact that Obama was not born in the USA.

[JimL]

Jeremy Corbyn, Bernie Sanders, my own country's Green party, etc are all to the right of me, but I would call them "left-wing" just like most people would. I don't let my own, very left wing, position affect how I label other people. I tend to agree with the politicalcompass charts in terms of whether someone is right, center, or left. There's nothing particularly unusual about how I view people's locations on the political spectrum.

I think Starlight, that you may be letting your own very left wing position affect how you label Hillary Clinton if you think of her as right wing.

The unusual thing is how far to the right US politicians are compared to the rest of the world. The US people by contrast, when polled on specific issues generally give responses that are left of center, which partially explains why Sanders polls as the most-liked politician in the US and why the more people heard him talk about the issues the more they tend to like him. The real question is why is America's democracy so broken that it consistently gives politicians who don't represent the people - how can a newly elected congress have an approval rating of 9%, and how can the newly-elected nominees of both major parties have negative favorability ratings nationally?

Because as a rule the American people are politically uninformed and so, if they vote at all, they tend to vote their party or on personality, rather than on issues.