Sexualisation of very young girls - US style

[thormas]

H_A Mossrose quoted a very good and accurate scripture specifically for you to read. You seem to have taken offense to the scripture? This is an example of seeing injury and insult where none was intended. Scripture says the cross of Jesus Christ is foolishness to those who are perishing. Mossrose directly then told you, you are perishing based on this scripture because you being an unbeliever probably view the cross of Christ as foolishness. This is a good example of another scripture which says that open rebuke is better than hidden love.

The cross is foolishness to the world. We see in death the way to life, the world sees a crucified criminal under Roman law.

And if someone is telling you that you are presiding- such hubris is sufficient to be injury and insult. I wasn't the object but even from a distance I thought it was insulting, unloving and simply wrong.

I do love how some Christians focus on rebuke but seem to miss or perhaps ignore the scriptures on love and mercy.


It is interesting to remember that Jesus focused on the Good Samaritan - who thought much of Judaism was foolish - when he wanted to remind us that love and mercy is the way of life eternal.

[thormas]

Thank you for this reply. When it comes to having eternal life, a miss can be as good as a mile. What according to your take on scripture is the formula for a person to have eternal life?

The Prodigal missed by much more than a mile but there was still time, the Father waits. And a mile is not very far at all for God.

There is no formula as if we are discussing chemistry or math - the only Way is Love (agape). Belief and faith are action words; it is not simply "I believe" rather fatih/belief is revealed in action. If one believes in the death and resurrection - then one must follow (baptism begins it): we continually strive to die to self(centeredness) and thereby have and live the new life of love..................the life of God.

[Mountain Man]

My belief is that God still gives Himself, still gives Love to all - merely because some don't know who the Giver is, merely because some - for a variety of reasons - do not, cannot accept that the giver is the one some off us call Abba - the gift is still given and received...

Your beliefs are contrary to scripture, as I have repeatedly shown. I can only pray that others do not read your words and fall for the same lies.

Scripture Verse: John 3:18

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

© Copyright Original Source

[Whateverman]

H_A Mossrose quoted a very good and accurate scripture specifically for you to read. You seem to have taken offense to the scripture?

Can you show us an example of H_A having been offended by Christian scripture?

I'll bet you can't...

[thormas]

You don't accept the Scriptures the same way we do. You won't be able to convince us about your unorthodox position by casting doubt on them.

You are free to do so, which is an unorthodox position, but it can't be considered granted.

Who is we? Is it you and 5,9, 12 others? Who is we to you and do you judge yourself better than all the other children of the Father? Based on what, an incomplete reading and insight of the gospels?

I have no interest in casting doubt, I am interested in understanding, compassion, love and an openness to all, that comes from such understanding.

I know I am free and you continue to 'parrot' rather than converse. And you can't grant anything to anyone and I already have it from where it counts.

[Esther]

The interpretations of theologians remain merely interpretations. There is no absolute and correct interpretation of these texts.

The only way that one interpretation can be designated as the "true" and/or "orthodox" interpretation is by its enforcement through law which is what the early Christian church did and it followed that with the threat punishment for anyone who offered any alternative interpretations

It is only attributed to Seneca.

Well thank you for your kind words.

H_A Mossrose quoted a very good and accurate scripture specifically for you to read. You seem to have taken offense to the scripture? This is an example of seeing injury and insult where none was intended. Scripture says the cross of Jesus Christ is foolishness to those who are perishing. Mossrose directly then told you, you are perishing based on this scripture because you being an unbeliever probably view the cross of Christ as foolishness. This is a good example of another scripture which says that open rebuke is better than hidden love.

[thormas]

This is a lie from the devil himself. It is only through Jesus' death and resurrection that we are redeemed.

Scripture Verse: Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

© Copyright Original Source

Jesus says that the greatest commandant is to love God, and the second is like it, to love one's neighbor. You are promoting a false gospel that says that one can focus on the second commandment to the exclusion of the first and essentially stumble one's way into heaven. You should not take Paul's warning lightly: "If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."

Of course it is a gift from God. Nobody said it wasn't. I have said previously on this site that I believe that life itself, the word that calls us to the fullness of that life and the love that we receive to meet the call of life is all God, is all gift. We cannot even be fully human without God. It is God's doing but we then must respond: it is a covenant, that means it is a relationship - there are two sides, God and man.

I don't believe that man can 'do it alone' or that just doing a bunch of works can buy heaven for us. I believe that we are loved first by God and if we accept that love - we use the gift that He has given - that is we love, it is by loving other that we act on faith, that we show we love God.I have gone even further than you: I believe that Love that is God is being continually given to us throughout our lives and our response must be continual. We don't take a day off from loving our neighbor. This then is not the work of man by his own efforts, it is the work of love done by man in response to the love that is God.

Where we differ is that it is obvious to me that when I see the 'non-believer' loving his or her neighbor, sacrificing, giving, being for others - then they have moved from selfishness to love and they don't just show mercy, they live it. I say they only do this because they too - whether understood or not, whether acknowledged or not -have also been loved by the same God, the same Father...........and as the Son said, this - mercy, love of neighbor, love, love ,love ......is the way of eternal life.

I'm saying it rains on us all. I'm saying God pours his love on us all in the most subtle of ways and it is only because of this that any are able to love. It is not works of man, it is love.

We thank the unknown soldier for his sacrifice, we sometimes see donations, huge donations from unknown donors, we even see the donation of body parts, like a kidney, from a man or woman who is unknown. But the reality is that even though unknown, the gift is given and it is used even though she who receive it has no idea who the giver of the gift is. And the infant who receives such a gift has no understanding of gift, giver or anything.

So too God. My belief is that God still gives Himself, still gives Love to all - merely because some don't know who the Giver is, merely because some - for a variety of reasons - do not, cannot accept that the giver is the one some off us call Abba - the gift is still given and received and the 'proof' is that if we see mercy in the world, if we see Christ-like love in the world, if we see sacrifice. if we see one stop to help a neighbor in distress-------then we see God and in the doing of such love, there is eternal life.

Read the gospel with not only your head but with your heart. Do you think agape is possible without God? God is Agape! How can their be such love unless there is God? Yet we see such love in the acts of the 'non-believer' all the time. They do not preface their love with "Lord, Lord" but how can any say they do not do the will of God, if that will is to love?

[Esther]

Esther,

What did he die for? Go back, first we should ask what did he live for? And the answer is us - so that we might have abundant life. And how is that accomplished? He gave us the answer: love, show mercy as the Good Samaritan, do unto others and you will have eternal life. This is the Way; He is the Way.

His entire life he died to (or refused) self-centeredness, note the temptations (to be for himself rather than for God and thereby repeat the sin of Adam). And, he was (in word and deed) the very epitome, the very embodiment of God, of Love. He announced the Kingdom, preached repentance, told all to prepare and in the midst of it all and in service to the Father - he taught and showed us how we should be............and that was to love (to be the image and likeness of God who is Love). As he lived, he died, still in service to the Father and for us.......so that we might be whole (healed), so that we might have Life. But how does this all work? Simple we, by baptism, enter into his death and his resurrection: we die to self-centeredness, to sin, and in this, in him, we rise to new life, the life of and with God. He is the Way of Salvation, of Healing, of Wholeness.

I didn't say eternal life is inherited by being merciful, by love of our neighbor - Jesus did. But that is the cross: the continual death to sin/selfishness is the way of Abundant Life.

In the Christ, it is actually done; it is accomplished. And as we eat this bread and drink this wine.....we are nourished so that we can go back into the world and love some more day in, day out.

Thank you for this reply. When it comes to having eternal life, a miss can be as good as a mile. What according to your take on scripture is the formula for a person to have eternal life?

[Leonhard]

You create a reality in your own mind: I have not rejected the gospels nor have I said that I have.

You don't accept the Scriptures the same way we do. You won't be able to convince us about your unorthodox position by casting doubt on them.

You are free to do so, which is an unorthodox position, but it can't be considered granted.

[thormas]

You're free to reject the Gospels if you want, but then you've moved yourself outside of the Church. If you wish to convince us, argue from the Scriptures.

You create a reality in your own mind: I have not rejected the gospels nor have I said that I have. I simply have the interest and have done the work and studied the NT by being a 'student' of some of the most acclaimed critical biblical scholar in the world.

I guess we can also discuss what Church you mean.

Plus, as shown here, it is hard to even have a conversation with a few of these folks, not to mention try to convince anyone, since all some do is repeat quote after quote but have no insight into the meaning of what they quote. A parrot repeats, a man or woman though should be capable of understanding and, with it, wisdom.

So ............. if you want to argue, use Scripture but show that you (generally speaking not necessarily specific to you) actually understand what is written and don't just parrot something you have heard or read............think with your heart and your head.

[thormas]

That is good you judge yourself, as we are told to do. But you really should wait for God to pat your back about it, brother.

Someone else pointed out the key to love, perhaps you overlooked it.

The key to loving your neighbor as you do yourself is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength.

There is no bypass of the first command to elevate the second.

There is no climbing the fence into the sheep pen, you must go through the gate, Jesus Christ.

You simply cannot think these atheists here can just love men but hate God. It is impossible for man.

You seem to continue to miss the reality that one loves God by loving his/her neighbor. They are one: you do not love God (in spite of all the declarations that some make) unless you love your neighbor, unless you love all the neighbors (seen and unseen, known and unknown). Loving one's neighbor is love of God - how could it possibly be otherwise if God is Love? Simply it is all about love as Jesus discussed with the lawyer: mercy (i.e. love, compassionate e concern) is that act by which we inherit eternal life.

Plus you have hit upon the truth without even realizing what you have written: to love your neighbor is to love God.

Once you reflect on this truth, get back to me.

p.s it seems you also don't grasp what atheism means: it is not that one hates God, one simply (for any number of reasons - including the failure of Christians to be their Christ in the world) does not belief that there is a God. Yet if they love, they 'know' Love, they value Love as highly as many religious folks..............and what is God if not love?

[Mountain Man]

Yet we have found the verse that says it is the work of love, of mercy that lets one inherit eternal life.

This is a lie from the devil himself. It is only through Jesus' death and resurrection that we are redeemed.

Scripture Verse: Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

© Copyright Original Source

Jesus says that the greatest commandant is to love God, and the second is like it, to love one's neighbor. You are promoting a false gospel that says that one can focus on the second commandment to the exclusion of the first and essentially stumble one's way into heaven. You should not take Paul's warning lightly: "If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."

[Leonhard]

As for the whole beauty pageant thing, it's gross and I don't like it.

[Leonhard]

You do realize that the apostles did not write the gospels nor are the gospels simply based on the memories or notes of the apostles. We can talk about the oral tradition but for example John's gospel seems to be eons beyond what the simple men chosen to be apostles were capable of. And I would be interested to know what exactly you - I mean you - understand by them being given the mind of Christ and when you think this happened.

So first the gospels are not what they (the apostles) said and again we need to understand what you mean by what Christ wanted them to know. BTW, how do you explain the changing expectation of the 2nd coming?

What gospel are you referencing concerning the Spirit teaching us and, once again, how do you understand how the Spirit teaches us and what the truths of Christ are?

Finally, you should be a little bit more Christian when addressing one who might not have the same beliefs or 'understanding' you do. It's called 'do unto others' unless you like to be talked down to and repeatedly called ignorant - which is an entirely different issue.

You're free to reject the Gospels if you want, but then you've moved yourself outside of the Church. If you wish to convince us, argue from the Scriptures.

[thormas]

That is an ignorant statement.

The Apostles were given the mind of Christ on matters of salvation. So when you read what they say, you can be sure it is what Christ wanted men to know. And you are also ignorant of Christ telling us the Spirit will teach us and lead us to these truths of Christ.

So it is actually two ways that your ignorance is displayed.

You do realize that the apostles did not write the gospels nor are the gospels simply based on the memories or notes of the apostles. We can talk about the oral tradition but for example John's gospel seems to be eons beyond what the simple men chosen to be apostles were capable of. And I would be interested to know what exactly you - I mean you - understand by them being given the mind of Christ and when you think this happened.

So first the gospels are not what they (the apostles) said and again we need to understand what you mean by what Christ wanted them to know. BTW, how do you explain the changing expectation of the 2nd coming?

What gospel are you referencing concerning the Spirit teaching us and, once again, how do you understand how the Spirit teaches us and what the truths of Christ are?

Finally, you should be a little bit more Christian when addressing one who might not have the same beliefs or 'understanding' you do. It's called 'do unto others' unless you like to be talked down to and repeatedly called ignorant - which is an entirely different issue.