Bernie, the "No Jobs" President

[Sparko]

I do think that self-drive vehicles are going to have a huge impact of both the taxi industry and the truck driving industry.

I want a Johnnycab

totalrecallbooniebug_03_resized.jpg

[Sparko]

MONEY has a way of doing that.

well then you should stop trying to get more of that then, and promoting getting more wealth for workers. You don't want to make yourself and them evil do you?

[Sparko]

ok, if you want context:

1 Timothy 6:9-119 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

good advice, don't you think, "flee these things"

evil caused by love of money

so what caused the love of money?

probably MONEY

[Sparko]

Joel,

The Cotton Gin isn't a good example of the way modern tech is problematic because it's a labor multiplier.

Robotics, kiosks, automated bits of software and the like are all labor replacements.

the cotton gin replaces a heck of a lot of cotton workers in the factories.

And robotics, kiosks and software eliminates a lot of minimum wage jobs, but it creates a lot of high paying tech jobs, like electronics technicians, installers, and repairmen, manufacturing of the robots and kiosks, chip designers, programmers, etc.

I think having more high paying jobs is what you guys keep asking for right? You just keep wanting to change the pay on the low paying old jobs, instead of creating higher paying new jobs.

[Cow Poke]

And pencils cause spelling misteaks

Hey, you misspelled.....

oh



I see what you did there.


BUTT!!!!! Pencils come with eradicators!

[rogue06]

Hey, you misspelled.....

oh



I see what you did there.


BUTT!!!!! Pencils come with eradicators!

No. You're a butt.

[Cow Poke]

No. You're a butt.

I'm telling Mossy. In fact... I think I'll report your post!




ETA: DRAT!!!!!!

[Littlejoe]

in USA I think it was unions that brought the laborers a rise in the standard of living from the Dickinsonian Gilded Age

No, actually, it was Henry Ford and the Ford Motor Co. that did it. When he started the worker reforms when he raised pay rates from $2.34 per 9hr day to $5 per 8hr day. So, he introduced the 5 day - 40 hr work week. He also built a hospital for his workers among other things. Ford had issues with turnover, one year having to hire over 50,000 employees to retain around 14,000. He felt it would be cheaper to retain his employees with better pay and benefits that to have to continually train new hires to replace experienced people walking off the job.

[Cow Poke]

No, actually, it was Henry Ford and the Ford Motor Co. that did it. When started the worker reforms when he raised pay rates from $2.34 per 9hr day to $5 per 8hr day. So, he introduced the 5 day - 40 hr work week. He also built a hospital for his workers among other things. Ford had issues with turnover, on year having to hire over 50,000 employees to retain around 14,000. He felt it would be cheaper to retain his employees with better pay and benefits that to have to continually train new hires to replace experienced people walking off the job.

EGGcellent point. AND, Ford gave us Kingsford Charcoal!

[Littlejoe]

EGGcellent point. AND, Ford gave us Kingsford Charcoal!

Sadly, IMHO, the pendulum is swinging back hard the other way, with many, MANY employers finding it cheaper to just replace workers instead of retaining them. My own job for example, even though we only hire college graduates with A+ certifications at a minimum, the training time to become fully productive is about 6 months...but my company will not pay you more to keep you, they'll let you walk... The site I work at has been recognized time and again by both our employer and the company we support, but merit raises? Noooo....we can't do that...be happy we let you keep your job. Meanwhile, our job becomes harder and more complicated daily as the company we support demands we do more and more to fulfill our contract...it's mighty frustrating.

The job hunt continues...

ETA: Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it...The Pullman car co. comes to mind. IIRC, the phrase "I owe my soul to the company store" started with them...

[Cow Poke]

Sadly, IMHO, the pendulum is swinging back hard the other way, with many, MANY employers finding it cheaper to just replace workers instead of retaining them. My own job for example, even though we only hire college graduates with A+ certifications at a minimum, the training time to become fully productive is about 6 months...but my company will not pay you more to keep you, they'll let you walk...

That is SO dumb! Our company was ever mindful of the costs associated with hiring, onboarding, training, etc..... If we could keep a guy, we tried!

The site I work at has been recognized time and again by both our employer and the company we support, but merit raises? Noooo....we can't do that...be happy we let you keep your job. Meanwhile, our job becomes harder and more complicated daily as the company we support demands we do more and more to fulfill our contract...it's might frustrating. The job hunt continues...

Best to you, LJ - you deserve something great!

[Littlejoe]

That is SO dumb! Our company was ever mindful of the costs associated with hiring, onboarding, training, etc..... If we could keep a guy, we tried!

I know, your company was a dying breed for sure! My guess is the company that bought you out has no such policy. I was talking to 4-5 friends at church Sunday, and to a man, they all said their company was the same way now. We're talking trained, licensed professionals. The group consisted of myself and another IT professional, a phlebotomist, a licensed Physical Therapist, and a Loan officer at a Bank. No factory workers or unskilled labors in the group.

Best to you, LJ - you deserve something great!

Thanks CP! I really appreciate it!

[Cow Poke]

I know, your company was a dying breed for sure! My guess is the company that bought you out has no such policy.

yup - Energy Transfer out of San Antonio -- strictly a "bottom line" company --- "how much more can we trim your department's budget"? Most of the people who are still there are looking for exits.

I was talking to 4-5 friends at church Sunday, and to a man, they all said their company was the same way now. We're talking trained, licensed professionals. The group consisted of myself and another IT professional, a phlebotomist, a licensed Physical Therapist, and a Loan officer at a Bank. No factory workers or unskilled labors in the group.

It's sad, for sure.

Thanks CP! I really appreciate it!

If I hear of something worthwhile, I'll sure let you know.

[Joel]

in USA I think it was unions that brought the laborers a rise in the standard of living from the Dickinsonian Gilded Age

First of all, the standard of living of the laborers rose through the 1800s.
And I also note that there is no inconsistency between voluntary labor unions and free markets.

Economist Ludwig von Mises discussed this dispute. "The apologists of government interference with business and of labor unionism ascribe all the improvements in the conditions of the workers to the actions of governments and unions." While:

"The economists assert that the improvement in the workers' material conditions is due to the increase in the per capita quota of capital invested and the technological achievements which the employment of this additional capital brought about. As far as labor legislation and union pressure did not exceed the limits of what the workers would have got without them as a necessary consequence of the acceleration of capital accumulation as compared with population, they were superfluous. As far as they exceeded these limits, they were harmful to the interests of the masses. They delayed the accumulation of capital thus slowing down the tendency toward a rise in the marginal productivity of labor and in wage rates. They conferred privileges on some groups of wage earners at the expense of other groups. They created mass unemployment and decreased the amount of products available for the workers in their capacity as consumers."
--Mises, Human Action, Chapter XXI.7 (https://mises.org/library/human-action-0/html/pp/828)

He says the difference arises in how to interpret the historical facts. I would suggest noting that the tendency toward higher standard of living began long before labor legislation or unions were prevalent. The latter were a trailing indicator rather than a cause. Mises pointed out evidence that in poor countries where the order was reversed--where a policy of labor legislation and union pressure attempts to create prosperity, instead of free markets, we find that this only traps them in poverty.

"deluded by the doctrines prevailing in present-day Western Europe and North America, [the third-world countries'] statesmen think that they can proceed in a different way. They encourage labor-union pressure and alleged prolabor legislation. Their interventionist radicalism nips in the bud all attempts to create domestic industries. Their stubborn dogmatism spells the doom of the Indian and Chinese coolies, the Mexican peons, and millions of other peoples, desperately struggling on the verge of starvation."

[Joel]

Joel,

The Cotton Gin isn't a good example of the way modern tech is problematic because it's a labor multiplier.

Robotics, kiosks, automated bits of software and the like are all labor replacements.

Perhaps. Other examples might be substituted, like how the electric light bulb eliminated the need for lamplighters.
I think my other arguments I made support my position.