Nudism and Clothing

[DesertBerean]

Aren't you contradicting yourself? You just cited several instances where public nakedness was associated with shame.

[foudroyant]

If someone forcibly removes another's clothing that is not the same thing as going about willingly in the nude.

[rogue06]

Yes, the Israelites had a practice of going nude to bathe in public.

Were they co-ed baths?

[foudroyant]

Yes - rivers, lakes, etc. were the only things available to bathe in when Moses led over a million people out.

If not, then how did they bathe?

And interestingly in Leviticus 14-17 and 22 and Numbers 19 there are over twenty commands from God to bathe. This is when Israel was still living in tents during this time.

Not one command is given where it reads men and women are to bathe separately.
Why is this?

[Cerealman]

Yes - rivers, lakes, etc. were the only things available to bathe in when Moses led over a million people out.

If not, then how did they bathe?

And interestingly in Leviticus 14-17 and 22 and Numbers 19 there are over twenty commands from God to bathe. This is when Israel was still living in tents during this time.

Not one command is given where it reads men and women are to bathe separately.
Why is this?

Yes and the bible never said if the jews shoes were made in China or Vietnam either.

[foudroyant]

Give it up man.

There is no command against public nudity.

[One Bad Pig]

If you aren't going to engage in clear serious discussion by resorting to these attacks then just get lost.

Oh, the irony.

[KingsGambit]

Give it up man.

There is no command against public nudity.

This is correct. But that does not mean it's a good idea.

[KingsGambit]

I am currently reading William Webb's awkwardly titled but brilliant Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals. I know foudroyant wouldn't like the book because it argues that the Bible's stance on women's rights was intended to set a trajectory toward equality rather than to be static. However, this quote from page 22 seems very fitting:

It is necessary for Christians to challenge their culture where it departs from kingdom values; it is equally necessary for them to identify with their culture on all other matters. This axiom reflects the thinking of the apostle Paul, who often acted very pragmatically when it comes to cultural issues.

I wish I could quote the entire paragraph here but Webb goes through much of 1 Corinthians here, giving as the most representative verse of the concept 1 Cor 9:22 (all things to all people).

[Cerealman]

Give it up man.

There is no command against public nudity.

Yes there is
Does giving unto Cesar and giving what is due to the Lord sound familiar?

[rogue06]

The issue of modesty has to be considered culturally, obviously. In a Muslim country, a woman might cause scandal by wearing shorts and a T-shirt that nobody would think twice about in another country and if this would end up bringing disrespute to the gospel somehow, it would have to be considered. In some African tribe where nobody wears much clothes, I wouldn't see a problem with women walking around topless if that's just what everybody does. That wouldn't make it okay in the US though.

A hint of this is where Paul tells women to keep their heads covered because in that culture, doing otherwise would be advertising oneself as a prostitute, which would bring great disrepute on the gospel.

Several years ago the mother and sister of a late friend of mine were in Riyadh when the Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice or mutaween^[1] came up and actually spray painted the sister's elbows orange because she was wearing jeans and a T-shirt. Apparently her bare arms were deemed to be offensive.









1. Who became infamous when fifteen girls died in a fire in 2002 trying to leave a burning building and were blocked from exiting by these goons because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress.

[rogue06]

Yes - rivers, lakes, etc. were the only things available to bathe in when Moses led over a million people out.

If not, then how did they bathe?

And interestingly in Leviticus 14-17 and 22 and Numbers 19 there are over twenty commands from God to bathe. This is when Israel was still living in tents during this time.

Not one command is given where it reads men and women are to bathe separately.
Why is this?

Sorry, that doesn't mean they bathed together. They could have still bathed at different times or in slightly different areas. It's what we did when we went camping.

[Abijah]

Nakedness is often used to metaphorically describe a persons' shame (not their nakedness but their shame for some type of sin) or an undefended land/person/position. Rarely, is it used in such a fashion that it may be interpreted "clothesless" or "nude".

`ervah

1. nakedness, nudity, shame, pudenda
A. pudenda (implying shameful exposure)
B. nakedness of a thing, indecency, improper behaviour
C. exposed, undefended (fig.)

[KingsGambit]

Nakedness is often used to metaphorically describe a persons' shame (not their nakedness but their shame for some type of sin) or an undefended land/person/position. Rarely, is it used in such a fashion that it may be interpreted "clothesless" or "nude".

`ervah

1. nakedness, nudity, shame, pudenda
A. pudenda (implying shameful exposure)
B. nakedness of a thing, indecency, improper behaviour
C. exposed, undefended (fig.)

Excellent first post!

[Cerealman]

Excellent first post!

I've been saying this to him for the longest time though I didn't know the Hebrew word for it.
cool cool