Problems with Heliocentrism

[klaus54]

Apparently the butterfly moves along with the ever changing earth's velocity as well. No matter which direction the butterfly is moving when the earth begins to accelerate, or decelerate, or move towards, or away from the sun. It's the magic world of earth gravity, which is never felt by the butterfly in addition to the gravity force prior to the earth's acceleration, or deceleration.

Of course the earth's additional force on the butterfly acting in whatever direction to keep the insect at pace with the earth does not exist. Same problem with the satellites around the earth. The force is a fabrication.

JM

Yes, everything on Earth does.

Physics would require a force to NOT move with Earth!

[JohnMartin]

Yes, everything on Earth does.

Physics would require a force to NOT move with Earth!

Only if the earth did not accelerate nor decelerate. But because Helio says it does, the force must exist and vary all the time.

JM

[JohnMartin]

foucault's pendulum and gyroscope. observation. videos from space, eclipses, precession, parallax, and on and on and on.... the proof is there, you just ignore it. you are a troll or a complete moron.

The Geo model accounts for all of these and more.

JM

[Sparko]

The Geo model accounts for all of these and more.

JM

no it doesnt. not by a long shot. as witnessed by your avoidance of the posts regarding them.

[lilpixieofterror]

Apparently a butterfly in a car turns left when the car turns left, because the cars gravity causes the butterfly to move with the car. Same principle applies to the satellites. The objection that the gravity force of the earth is larger avoids the problems already discussed and never answered. The earth simply cannot provide the force required to keep those butterfly satellites orbiting with the earth's velocity changes.

JM

Yet another misrepresentation of what physics actually teaches.

[klaus54]

Only if the earth did not accelerate nor decelerate. But because Helio says it does, the force must exist and vary all the time.

JM

As has been explained to you dozens of times before, object-Earth gravitational force far outweighs (as it were) the force on the object due to acceleration of Earth in its orbit.

[klaus54]

Apparently a butterfly in a car turns left when the car turns left, because the cars gravity causes the butterfly to move with the car. Same principle applies to the satellites. The objection that the gravity force of the earth is larger avoids the problems already discussed and never answered. The earth simply cannot provide the force required to keep those butterfly satellites orbiting with the earth's velocity changes.

The butterfly DOES turn left viewed from a stationary observer outside of the frame of reference of the car. The butterfly flies its normal path in the frame of reference inside the car.

{Roy: Add "frames of reference" to the list.}

[klaus54]

JohnnyMartin might be interested in how gravity can be measured very precisely, so precise in fact that geologists use gravimeters to detect dense ore deposits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravimetry

Johnny ignored this one.

How can gravimeters detect ore deposits?

As an undergrad in a geophysics course, we used a relatively cheap gravimeter to measure thickness of glacial till in a valley cross-section. The till being unconsolidated was less dense than the surrounding siltstone and shale, thus produced a slightly smaller gravity signal.

What's the Magick Aether explanation of dat?

[JohnMartin]

no it doesnt. not by a long shot. as witnessed by your avoidance of the posts regarding them.

Geo was discussed at length on the two longest threads in NS301. I am not going through that again. Any avoidance is merely because of lack of interest in tracing over the same old paths again, with the same old pseudo answers you lot give time and again.

Modern science is so confused about gravity it cannot be sure that it is either mass attraction or a S-T continuum. Somehow, even though modern science is so eclectic, we are to be very confident that one body moves past another body, even though R theory says we should not be so confident. What a mess. Yet we are told the science meta narrative that some time ago an event happened and now we know things are the way they are. Don't ask any questions about the meta narrative, or the ideas, or the various ways the data can be interpreted.

Just get dogmatic about the earth and where it is located within the universe. We know!! We have the pendulum, redshift, rotation, Coriolis etc. They all say this!

Actually they don't say anything. They all have to be interpreted. Hence the weakness of modern science. The almost self evident weakness is covered over by the strident dogmatism of Geo is false. Helo is true. NM and R are both true and without fault.

Yeh riiiiight.

I don't think so.

I suspect the Geo Helio question has an answer based more upon the formation of the ones answering the question than the content of the answers being given.


JM

[JohnMartin]

Yet another misrepresentation of what physics actually teaches.

Yet another avoidance of the problem. You are improving though. No more foul mouth.

JM

[JonF]

Many moons ago a very clever professor took a pendulum with a stiff connection to the pivot and another one except mounted upside down and investigated the behavior when he connected their stiff connections with a stiff link pin-jointed at each end. With the right parameters he had a gravitometer that could detect the direction of the moon.

[JohnMartin]

As has been explained to you dozens of times before, object-Earth gravitational force far outweighs (as it were) the force on the object due to acceleration of Earth in its orbit.

The metaphor only means you have produced an imaginary force. Apparently your imaginary force works in all directions simultaneously on all objects all over the earth, and with both acceleration and deceleration of the earth in space. This force (which is really a multitude of forces) is hand waved away as gravity. When gravity only ever acts radially from a body and cannot accel or decel another body. Magnitude and existence of the force are both not established within the Newtonian system.

The butterfly will continue on its journey, independent of the earths change in v. So too will all other bodies in orbit around the earth.

Prediction - no forces will be found to account for the action of the earth on in flight bodies.

But its about gravity, like the faceless Larry. We really don't know who he is, but he says he will deliver, but never does. The Helios require the butterfly to be attached to the earth, like a seat belt attaches the passenger into the car.

The magic metaphor of the NM Helio model, with its seat belt gravity.

JM

[JohnMartin]

Johnny ignored this one.

How can gravimeters detect ore deposits?

As an undergrad in a geophysics course, we used a relatively cheap gravimeter to measure thickness of glacial till in a valley cross-section. The till being unconsolidated was less dense than the surrounding siltstone and shale, thus produced a slightly smaller gravity signal.

What's the Magick Aether explanation of dat?

Well according to you the unconsolidated till bent the S-T a little less than the other materials. Right? Or was it that the unconsolidated till had less attraction than the other materials? Clueless about modern science in practice. Right? Right.

You know it wasn't an aether related model, simply because the other two or perhaps three or more theories of gravity account for what you did. Right?

Wrong. You simply think you know, but you don't. You think the way you do because that's the way you've been told to think.

An aether gravity model accounts for the interaction of the aether with matter. Rather than attributing the gravity field to mass attraction, or S-T, the gravity phenomena is caused by local aether flow interacting with matter.

JM

[JohnMartin]

Many moons ago a very clever professor took a pendulum with a stiff connection to the pivot and another one except mounted upside down and investigated the behavior when he connected their stiff connections with a stiff link pin-jointed at each end. With the right parameters he had a gravitometer that could detect the direction of the moon.

Your point is what?

JM

[Yttrium]

When gravity only ever acts radially from a body and cannot accel or decel another body.

I think you might want to rephrase that into something that actually makes some kind of sense. Gravity is a force. F=ma. If you have a force, you have acceleration. In this case, the object accelerates toward the Earth, due to the Earth's gravity.