I think the replacement analogy is flawed. Cells replicate - we don't install new ones (usually - absent a transplant). Excepting transplant recipients and installed prosthetics all cells of a body originate ultimately from the first. There is a continuity that is not found in machines which have parts replaced from external sources.
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Immortality
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostIf we're talking about identical copies that are all actively living (i.e., not in stasis) this statement is nonsensical.
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostCarrikature, it is obvious to me that we are talking past one another. I really don't care if each of the other "clones" is the same as me in any sense. At the moment of creation we become different. I will not willingly die so another one of me can be the one who continues. Neither would one of them die so that I might be the one who continues.
We seem to be at an impasse.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThis wouldn't be a game.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd I, like Jed, don't believe you would allow yourself to be shot in the head and killed so that some copy of yours could go on living. YOU would still die.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostJust because the copy thinks he is you doesn't mean he is you. Before being shot in the head, there would be two people who each thought they were you. One would have a physical continuity with the you before the copying and one would not.
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostI think the replacement analogy is flawed. Cells replicate - we don't install new ones (usually - absent a transplant). Excepting transplant recipients and installed prosthetics all cells of a body originate ultimately from the first. There is a continuity that is not found in machines which have parts replaced from external sources.
Originally posted by Paprika View PostThat's because you're begging the question that 'identical [physical] copies' is a coherent concept, but that is the very issue at debate.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostI'm not sure if a bulk response is the best way to do this. If any of you would like me to break out responses to you, please let me know. I lumped them together into a single response in the interest of time and effort."It's evolution; every time you invent something fool-proof, the world invents a better fool."
-Unknown
"Preach the gospel, and if necessary use words." - Most likely St.Francis
I find that evolution is the best proof of God.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostYou have yet to explain what makes you different from your clone at the moment of creation. It's less that we're talking past each other, in my opinion, than that you've yet to answer this fundamental question. I understand that you would not willingly die for another can continue. That's perfectly legitimate, but my claim has entirely been that there is nothing that distinguishes one from the other. All you're doing is insisting that there's a difference, and that's not going to be enough. Show what that difference is, if you can.
Originally posted by Carrikature View PostI continue to challenge both you and Jed to show how I am in any way distinct from my copy. I've relied heavily upon consciousness as that which identifies us as individuals. If there are identical consciousnesses, it has yet to be shown how these are also individuals. You're free to disbelieve me, but at least put some work into it.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by CarryYou have yet to explain what makes you different from your clone at the moment of creation
I'll get back to the other later."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Irate Canadian View PostCarrik, just a quick question. Would you consider your existence to continue after being cloned? Because the way I see it at t = 1 second, the clone begins another life, even if it believes it has another...I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostThe difference is experience. I would be standing in a room (for convenience) with one or more identical individuals. I would still experience being me looking at some other folks who looked like me. Unless you posit some mystical unity of thought I am not one of them they are not experiencing the same thing I am. How do I know they are supposedly me? Your argument is nonsense as far as I can see. You have failed to show that I would not see them as strangers.
Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostI have done so, and repeated it above. You have failed to show or give any reason for me to see these other people as me. Sure from here it is evident, but experience is a different matter.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostYou lost me here - how can this possibly need explanation? Original and copy exist separately and are not the same physical thing.
I'll get back to the other later.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostFor some reason I'm reminded of the episode of The Simpsons where Homer became a Krusty the Clown impersonator. The scene where Krusty tried to trick the mafia by doing a shell game type thing was pretty funny.I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Carrikature View PostIn other news, this is fun.
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