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What Could Falsify Man Made Global Warming Theory?

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  • Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    No one has ever suggested we dismantle our economic systems. You question makes no sense.
    He's probably getting it from people like Obama. Remember when he said that under his system energy prices would "necessarily skyrocket"?



    Seems like Obama's "Cap and Trade", or anything similar, would cause massive damage to our economy.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      The weather is an extremely - extremely! - complex phenomena. It is so complex that even with supercomputers cranking away for years they STILL haven't been able to model it correctly. Why? For several reasons - one being multilevel nested feedback loops, another being that global weather is a highly dynamic system and another being the 'Butterfly Effect' of Chaos Theory.

      That said, promoters of "global-warming-is-caused-by-humans" (Al Gore and his followers) will NEVER be 'convinced' of the contrary in the same way as promoters of Evolution Theory will never be convinced of its flaws. Why? Primarily for these four reasons: (1) they selectively accept any data that even appears to support their position; (2) They interpret all observations so as to support their position; (3) They discard/dismiss/ignore any data or observations that doesn't support their position and, last but not least; (4) there is an extremely powerful political, economic and ideological agenda behind "global warning" (just as there is for Evolution).

      In short, TRUE science takes a back seat to these 4 agenda-driven factors and that is why no weather condition can falsify this theory.

      That answers your question, seer.

      Jorge
      Climate scientists are much more interested in climate (a more global and long term aspect of weather) than they are the weather.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post
        Over the years I have heard droughts, extreme cold, extreme heat, heavy snow fall, no snow fall, heavy rain fall, active hurricane season, calm hurricane season, etc... all blamed on man made global warming. Are there any weather conditions that could falsify this theory?
        I guess if the increase in CO2 concentrations continued but the increase in temperature rise stopped, and no reason for this could be found, then we would have to begin to wonder.


        I sometimes think that "falsification" can be overplayed. Scientific theories are multilayered beasts. So what begins to falsify them are observations which, over time, show them to be less and less workable.

        No one observation is likely to make folk say - "yes, that is correct" or "no, that is wrong".

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        • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
          He's probably getting it from people like Obama. Remember when he said that under his system energy prices would "necessarily skyrocket"?

          Seems like Obama's "Cap and Trade", or anything similar, would cause massive damage to our economy.
          That is correct. The free flow of energy at market prices is the life blood of a prosperous economy. Over regulation tends to drive costs up impeding job creation and weakening the individual's buying power (like an elder couple paying heating bills in Chicago). Just look at what the President is doing to the coal industry. And from what I can gather, to make any real difference in this global warming we would need serious and draconian regulation. This is why the Kyoto Protocol is pretty much dead - it could deeply undermine a nations economy.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            That is correct. The free flow of energy at market prices is the life blood of a prosperous economy. Over regulation tends to drive costs up impeding job creation and weakening the individual's buying power (like an elder couple paying heating bills in Chicago). Just look at what the President is doing to the coal industry. And from what I can gather, to make any real difference in this global warming we would need serious and draconian regulation. This is why the Kyoto Protocol is pretty much dead - it could deeply undermine a nations economy.
            Yeah, I think this is correct. Global warming is the quintessential externality to economic concerns. It's a currently unavoidable side-effect of economic activity, and ironically the more free-market the energy prices and the more prosperous the economies, the greater the overall warming. And if any nation elects to hobble their economy in the interests of global climate stability, it's useless because nobody else will. Kind of like trying to stop inflation by talking someone into being the first to take a pay cut.

            Sooner or later we will either run out of fossil fuels, or run out of people. Either one will solve the problem, but probably nothing else will.

            Comment


            • Here is something that may be pertinent: "Wavier jet stream 'may drive weather shift' ", including prolonged cold spells and heat waves. The arctic warming means the temperature differential between the arctic and mid-latitudes is decreased. This makes the jet stream slower, which makes it meander more, making it wavier. "This results in weather patterns tending to becoming stuck over areas for weeks on end. It also drives cold weather further south and warm weather further north. Examples of the latter are Alaska and parts of Scandinavia, which have had exceptionally warm conditions this winter."

              Blessings,
              Lee
              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                Here is something that may be pertinent:
                Not quite sure how this is related to climate. Is the argument being implied here that climate change is moving the jet stream around? Even that seems speculative. Is there a proposed mechanism for causing a wavier jet stream?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by phank View Post
                  Is the argument being implied here that climate change is moving the jet stream around?
                  Yes, the warming arctic causing the jet stream to slow down.

                  Is there a proposed mechanism for causing a wavier jet stream?
                  So when the jet stream encounters high pressure zones, it doesn't punch through like it used to, instead, it meanders.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                    Yes, the warming arctic causing the jet stream to slow down.


                    So when the jet stream encounters high pressure zones, it doesn't punch through like it used to, instead, it meanders.

                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    Sounds like another factor worth watching and recording. Of course, this is purported to be a result and not a cause of the warming, and I think the results like this are where the models are weakest. So when we seen unusual variations in global patterns, hopefully we can organize and make sense of them in terms of constellations of causal patterns.

                    Comment

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