Physics professor endorces Intelligent Design

[Boxing Pythagoras]

You are being disingenuous Boxing. In another thread you were given a quote and link from Stephen Hawking where he plainly said that the Big Bang was the "beginning" of time and space, of the universe. And all you could say was that you "disagree" with him. Really?

That's not actually what Professor Hawking said. What he actually said was that all the evidence seems to indicate that the universe had a beginning. And, yes, I disagree with that position, and asked for the actual evidence which supports it. How is that disingenuous?

[shunyadragon]

No Shuny, if you claim that something MORE than this universe exists then it is ON you to show it.

I make no such claim. Except ah . . . Through the study of Quantum Mechanics with the help of the modern collider we are learning more about our physical existence BEFORE the 'Big Bang. See this thread: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...er-anti-matter.

The wiki link you provided described the existence of a singularity before the 'Big Bang,' therefore by your reference and the above the 'Big Bang' is NOT the beginning of everything.

But I understand you have a religious agenda since your faith teaches that matter and energy are eternal - it is only natural that you would want to defend your "beliefs."

BTW Shuny, in keeping with the purpose of this thread I will ask you again: your religion teaches that the universe is evidence for God. Do you agree?

What my religion believes is not the issue. I have a thread on the Baha'i Faith, and you may post there if you wish to discuss the cosmogony of the Baha'i Faith There is no evidence for an infinite and eternal, nor a finite and temporal physical existence. Still waiting . . .

[seer]

That's not actually what Professor Hawking said. What he actually said was that all the evidence seems to indicate that the universe had a beginning. And, yes, I disagree with that position, and asked for the actual evidence which supports it. How is that disingenuous?

Well in the link Hawking clearly laid out the evidence for his position. You may disagree, but based on what?

[seer]

The wiki link you provided described the existence of a singularity before the 'Big Bang,' therefore by your reference and the above the 'Big Bang' is NOT the beginning of everything.

I have no problem with a singularity giving rise to the Big Bang. That is the common understanding. We still live in a finite universe. Are you suggesting that the singularity is eternal into the past?

What my religion believes is not the issue. I have a thread on the Baha'i Faith, and you may post there if you wish to discuss the cosmogony of the Baha'i Faith There is no evidence for an infinite and eternal, nor a finite and temporal physical existence. Still waiting . . .

Actually this is exactly what this thread is about. Dr. Michael Strauss, in your OP, suggested that the evidence points to a Designer. And according to your belief system and mine that is absolutely correct. So once again Shuny, is the universe evidence for God.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Well in the link Hawking clearly laid out the evidence for his position. You may disagree, but based on what?

No, actually, he did not clearly lay out the evidence for his position. He simply stated that the evidence seems to support his position. Asserting that there is evidence and actually producing that evidence are two wholly separate things.

[seer]

No, actually, he did not clearly lay out the evidence for his position. He simply stated that the evidence seems to support his position. Asserting that there is evidence and actually producing that evidence are two wholly separate things.

Really Boxing - this is what you are reduced to?

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Really Boxing - this is what you are reduced to?

Yes, I have been reduced to pointing out the obvious. I know it's rather tedious, but there are apparently some people who cannot grasp fairly simple concepts.

[shunyadragon]

I have no problem with a singularity giving rise to the Big Bang. That is the common understanding. We still live in a finite universe. Are you suggesting that the singularity is eternal into the past?

No, just that the singularity existed in a greater cosmos before the big bang. There is no evidence that anything existed into the eternal past, just as there is no evidence that our physical past is finite and temporal. By the way the singularity only occurs in some models, others describe a black hole, and others like Steinhardt describe a cyclic universe.

Actually this is exactly what this thread is about. Dr. Michael Strauss, in your OP, suggested that the evidence points to a Designer. And according to your belief system and mine that is absolutely correct. So once again Shuny, is the universe evidence for God.

No, according to my belief system there is a Source some call god(s) that is the Creator, NOT that there is scientific evidence as to whether our physical existence is finite and temporal, nor infinite and eternal. As a matter of fact, there is no evidence that our physical existence is infinite and eternal, nor finite and temporal.

[seer]

I most definitely disagree with Dr. Strauss and his claim that there is evidence of a designer and a design, either alien or Divine.

Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is a direct evidence of the revelation within it of the attributes and names of God, inasmuch as within every atom are enshrined the signs that bear eloquent testimony to the revelation of that Most Great Light

[shunyadragon]

No, The above reference refers to the evidence for Creation from the metaphysical perspective, and NOT to the scientific evidence for whether our physical evidence of whether our physical evidence supports a infinite and eternal or finite and temporal.

For my religious beliefs refer to the appropriate thread. Actually according to Baha'i scripture, individual universes are temporal and finite, The matrix of Creation is infinite and eternal, ie the multiverse cosmos. This view is clearly in conflict with your religious agenda. Please do not selectively quote my scripture to justify your religious agenda, since like the scientist you selectively cite, you do not believe any of it.

Again, I am referring to the evidence of science. As a matter of fact, there is no evidence that our physical existence is infinite and eternal, nor finite and temporal.

[seer]

No, The above reference refers to the evidence for Creation from the metaphysical perspective, and NOT to the scientific evidence for whether our physical evidence of whether our physical evidence supports a infinite and eternal or finite and temporal.

I don't care about what is finite or not. Your faith Shuny teaches that Creation IS evidence for God (it has nothing to do with a metaphysical perspective or not). So do you agree that Creation is evidence for God - yes or no?

[Boxing Pythagoras]

I don't care about what is finite or not. Your faith Shuny teaches that Creation IS evidence for God (it has nothing to do with a metaphysical perspective or not). So do you agree that Creation is evidence for God - yes or no?

What does this have to do with Natural Science or the topic of this thread? Shunyadragon has repeatedly asked that questions about his faith be brought the the appropriate forum, where I am fairly certain he would be more than happy to address them.

[shunyadragon]

I don't care about what is finite or not. Your faith Shuny teaches that Creation IS evidence for God (it has nothing to do with a metaphysical perspective or not). So do you agree that Creation is evidence for God - yes or no?

I answered this in detail. Your dodging the subject at hand.

[shunyadragon]

I don't care about what is finite or not. . . .

That's a revelation. After years of threads and many arguments on your behalf that the evidence indicates a finite temporal universe, you suddenly don't care. Why all the blue smoke and mirrors for many years, selectively citing scientists and the Baha'i Faith to justify this view when you don't even believe in any of it.

[seer]

What does this have to do with Natural Science or the topic of this thread? Shunyadragon has repeatedly asked that questions about his faith be brought the the appropriate forum, where I am fairly certain he would be more than happy to address them.

No, in the OP Shuny jumped on a Christian for claiming that the universe points to a Designer. Well Shuny's religion teaches the exact same thing. It is hypocritical at best.