Originally posted by Sparko
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As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Great New AronRa video, Evolution is a fact
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Last edited by seer; 08-07-2014, 08:29 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut why certain mutations take or don't take is random because of the environment they by chance find themselves in. And the environment that drives natural selection is to there by chance so:
1. Mutations are random.
2. The creature is in a particular ecological niche by chance.
3. The ecological niche itself that drives selection is also there by chance.
Chance is behind the whole system.
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostWhen playing roulette against the casino the number that turns up is random yet over time the house manages to win 5% without fail. Why is that?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostBecause the game is intelligently designed that way? In any case which one of my three points do you take exception with?
Natural selection acting on different variations doesn't have a uniform probability distribution. Some variations will outperform others and become more numerous in the population.
The proper term is that the selection part of evolution is stochastic - meaning each event is unpredictable - but long term trends will always follow the nonuniform probability distribution.
That's why you may beat the house on any given roulette spin, but since the numbers 0 and 00 give the house a 5% advantage the house will always win in the long run.
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostThe words random and chance most often are used to mean a uniform probability distribution, where each outcome is equally likely.
Natural selection acting on different variations doesn't have a uniform probability distribution. Some variations will outperform others and become more numerous in the population.
The proper term is that the selection part of evolution is stochastic - meaning each event is unpredictable - but long term trends will always follow the nonuniform probability distribution.
That's why you may beat the house on any given roulette spin, but since the numbers 0 and 00 give the house a 5% advantage the house will always win in the long run.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Provided you are wearing a crash helmet of some kind I can recommend HeadlyvonNoggin (Jeremy Christian) speaking to David Smalley about why the Genesis account is scientifically accurate and there is no conflict between religion and science at about 96 minutes and on:
http://www.spreaker.com/user/smalley...stian-listener
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Originally posted by seer View PostBut it is still all chance, again which one of my three points do you disagree with?
RoyJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostThe fourth one which you omitted: the result of having a particular mutation in a particular environmental niche is not random.
RoyAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostI disagree with Creationists playing silly semantic games to avoid dealing with empirically observed reality.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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From a Berkeley site on natural selection, the first two points:
1. There is variation in traits.
For example, some beetles are green and some are brown.
2.There is differential reproduction.
Since the environment can't support unlimited population growth, not all individuals get to reproduce to their full potential. In this example, green beetles tend to get eaten by birds and survive to reproduce less often than brown beetles do.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostSo I take it that you agree with my three points.
Why are you writing such chance sentences with chance words?
Obviously your home could randomly lose power and crash your computer, or your Internet ISP could randomly suffer an outage, or the TWEB server could randomly be smashed my a big meteorite.
That means everything you post here is just chance, don't you agree?
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Originally posted by seer View PostWhat? That doesn't follow. The mutation is random, environmental niche is random, and the creature is in that niche by chance. How can the result also not be random since it did not have to turn out a particular way given the other three variables?
Poker hands are random, but the result of possessing a full house when your competitor has a flush is not.
Similarly, mutations may be random, but the result of possessing a particular mutation in a particular environment is not.
I've no doubt that as usual you'll try to twist this into something that fits your preconceived but incorrect propaganda point - or if you can't, simply claim I stated something entirely different. The only suspense is in waiting to see how.
This time try to remember that what you've previously written is immediately available for re-examination.
RoyLast edited by Roy; 08-07-2014, 12:30 PM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostThe words random and chance most often are used to mean a uniform probability distribution, where each outcome is equally likely.
Natural selection acting on different variations doesn't have a uniform probability distribution. Some variations will outperform others and become more numerous in the population.
The proper term is that the selection part of evolution is stochastic - meaning each event is unpredictable - but long term trends will always follow the nonuniform probability distribution.
That's why you may beat the house on any given roulette spin, but since the numbers 0 and 00 give the house a 5% advantage the house will always win in the long run.
We might begin by asking what is really meant by "random." One might say "anything can happen" in a random event, but that is not really true. For example, most people would quickly agree that the winner of tonight's state lottery drawing will be picked "at random," but that's not the same thing as saying that anyone can win. I know for certain, for example, that I'm not going to win—because I haven't bought a ticket. The winner may be drawn "randomly," but in this case that means picked from a well-defined population (the ticket holders) and not from all possible individuals who might be happy to receive a prize. So, if we can indeed apply the word “random” to a lottery pick, it means that we can surely use it to refer to an unpredictable outcome chosen from a limited number of possibilities.
In a lottery drawing the forces that constrain those possibilities are obvious. The randomly picked lottery winner is limited to the set of individuals who hold tickets. In evolution, the constraints may be less obvious, but they are still there. Although we often speak of mutations, changes in the genetic material, as being "random," that does not mean that all conceivable changes are equally possible or equally likely. The range of genetic changes is limited by the chemistry of DNA itself, by existing interactions within the cell and by preexisting constraints in the process of development. They are also quickly subjected to the forces of natural selection, which are most definitely nonrandom. In an organism that depends upon camouflage color or streamlined shape for survival changes that interfere with either would soon disappear. Changes that enhanced either would tend to persist and become more common. Natural selection tends to drive evolution in the directions it favors, and as such is far from a random process.
Like tonight's lottery pick, it would be more accurate therefore to describe the nature of genetic change as "unpredictable" instead of "random." We may expect that natural selection will favor the evolution of protective coloration in a certain species that is prey for a larger one and still not be able to predict what form that camouflage will ultimately take.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostOriginally posted by seerSo I take it that you agree with my three points.
He produces some ridiculous claim that demonstrates only that he's ignorant of the immediate subject, waits for some-one to respond tangentially, then simply assumes that because that some-one didn't directly dismiss his inanity, they must not only agree with whatever nonsense he's currently pushing but must also have made any argument that he chooses to refute.
RoyJorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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