From this article, which has a link to the YouTube debate with origin-of-life chemist Lee Cronin. A couple of quotes from James Tour
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James Tour gets to debate origin-of-life chemist!
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James Tour gets to debate origin-of-life chemist!
"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney) -
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostFrom this article, which has a link to the YouTube debate with origin-of-life chemist Lee Cronin. A couple of quotes from James Tour
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostArguments like this remain a vague 'arguing from ignorance.' and not meaningful for an argument based on the evidence.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostAre you saying that if "science" is ignorant about something and has no theory, "science" is still to be given credit (the benefit of the doubt) despite this ignorance?Originally posted by lee_merrillIn short he'd be happy if origin-of-life researchers came up with a demonstration, he's just insisting that we have a very long way to go, and the target (life in a cell) keeps moving farther away, the problem is demonstrably more and more difficult.Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-28-2020, 06:32 AM.
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Tour is the synthetic organic chemist who a few years ago, claimed that nobody can explain macroevolution after he says he asked a few fellow chemists to do so. Given that he was asking chemists rather than biologists, zoologists or geneticists, it isn't surprising he didn't get the answers he sought (you don't go to a, say, a geologist for an explanation of relativity, you go to a physicist). Further, given that his questions revealed that he was actually talking about the origin of life and not macroevolution (which is incredibly easy to explain) it isn't surprising that several of those who he asked just gave him, as he claimed, blank looks and didn't respond.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostTour is the synthetic organic chemist who a few years ago, claimed that nobody can explain macroevolution after he says he asked a few fellow chemists to do so. Given that he was asking chemists rather than biologists, zoologists or geneticists, it isn't surprising he didn't get the answers he sought (you don't go to a, say, a geologist for an explanation of relativity, you go to a physicist). Further, given that his questions revealed that he was actually talking about the origin of life and not macroevolution (which is incredibly easy to explain) it isn't surprising that several of those who he asked just gave him, as he claimed, blank looks and didn't respond.
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostThe rest of the story is evolutionary biologist Dr. Nick Matzke of the NCSE called Tour's bluff and Tour folded. Dr. Matzke offered to fly to St. Louis and explain macroevolution to Tour with the sole condition the meeting be recorded and made public. Tour refused. Like many other ID-Creationists Tour is a self-important blowhard who knows his anti-science propaganda can't stand up to the slightest scientific scrutiny.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostArguments like this remain a vague 'arguing from ignorance.' and not meaningful for an argument based on the evidence.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
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Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View PostThe rest of the story is evolutionary biologist Dr. Nick Matzke of the NCSE called Tour's bluff and Tour folded. Dr. Matzke offered to fly to St. Louis and explain macroevolution to Tour with the sole condition the meeting be recorded and made public. Tour refused. Like many other ID-Creationists Tour is a self-important blowhard who knows his anti-science propaganda can't stand up to the slightest scientific scrutiny.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostI know Tour is not a proponent of ID, and do you have a reference to this meeting proposal? But Tour is mainly vocal about origin-of-life questions, not evolution. Would you have something to say about Tour's views on origin-of-life?
Blessings,
Lee
After going on about it for awhile they finally mention Tour's condition that had not been in the initial offer:
one condition!just one condition
[*bolding and coloring in original*]
O'Leary then takes responsibility for failing to mention "his wish that the meeting be recorded" although she admits that her email to him did contain a link to where this was mentioned. She excused his failure to check it out saying he's "a busy man" so he didn't bother to look at it.
In any case, this was an odd condition given that he has shown that he has no trouble engaging in public debates which are recorded and shown online.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostI know Tour is not a proponent of ID, and do you have a reference to this meeting proposal? But Tour is mainly vocal about origin-of-life questions, not evolution. Would you have something to say about Tour's views on origin-of-life?
Blessings,
Lee
I have followed him for a while like rogue06, and as of yet has not proposed a workable hypothesis nor research to support his assertions.Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-28-2020, 03:37 PM.
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostI know Tour is not a proponent of ID, and do you have a reference to this meeting proposal? But Tour is mainly vocal about origin-of-life questions, not evolution. Would you have something to say about Tour's views on origin-of-life?
Blessings,
Lee
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostTour is the synthetic organic chemist who a few years ago, claimed that nobody can explain macroevolution after he says he asked a few fellow chemists to do so. Given that he was asking chemists rather than biologists, zoologists or geneticists, it isn't surprising he didn't get the answers he sought (you don't go to a, say, a geologist for an explanation of relativity, you go to a physicist). Further, given that his questions revealed that he was actually talking about the origin of life and not macroevolution (which is incredibly easy to explain) it isn't surprising that several of those who he asked just gave him, as he claimed, blank looks and didn't respond.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYou do not have to be an ID proponent to conjure up a phony argument as Tour is doing.
He is not a reliable source, because he has never proposed any research nor hypothesis to support his conclusions. He is only arguing for the negative, which is an unknown and not falsifiable.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostHe has talked about biologists' papers and points, and has presumably talked with biologists, and this is the first biologist who was willing to discuss origin-of-life with him.
Blessings,
Lee
And this was about his claim that "no scientist alive today understands macroevolution" which isn't concerned with the origin of life since all biological evolution takes place after life has already first arisen -- regardless of how it arose.Last edited by rogue06; 03-28-2020, 06:11 PM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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