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Forum Rules: Here
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Nice defense of Evolution
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostIf you look at only one enzyme you have no idea what has happened in the last 4 billion years. But if you put the pieces together, looking at this change here, that one there, the fossil remains, the similarities and differences in today's species, and so forth, all of this together is immense evidence for evolution...
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostLet's take this quote, which seems to me to be handwaving. How does this demonstrate evolution of enzymes?
Blessings,
LeeLast edited by shunyadragon; 10-25-2019, 08:07 PM.
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostLet's take this quote, which seems to me to be handwaving. How does this demonstrate evolution of enzymes?
Blessings,
Lee
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostLet's take this quote, which seems to me to be handwaving. How does this demonstrate evolution of enzymes?
Blessings,
Lee
One comment often dishonestly misrepresented and misused by Creationists is the use of 'directed' in scientific literature. 'Directed' here refers to natural chemical and structural nature that cause the result, and not outside 'directed' cause of the natural chemical processes.Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-26-2019, 08:47 AM.
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Originally posted by Seeker View PostYou mean the evolution of increased enzyme specificity? If so, that can be explained too, although it can get a bit technical.
As for the [creationist] statement you asked me to counter:
'' [...] we don't see random changes doing that to enzymes (increasing their specificity) on a scale which could possibly account for all of life's specified complexity ''.
This relates to the use of the terminology 'directed' in scientific literature. The outcome of the series of cause and effect outcomes in nature is 'directed' by the Laws of NAture, environments, chemical and structural properties of chemical in nature.Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-26-2019, 09:19 AM.
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostLet's take this quote, which seems to me to be handwaving. How does this demonstrate evolution of enzymes?
Now, you could object that we don't actually see each individual step take place, but we don't see each individual step involved with a seed growing into mature tree, but nobody seems to object to growth being the explanation - there's no "tree creationism.""Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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As TL has mentioned we have actually seen enzymes evolve.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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While "creationists" will use the term "evolutionist" their favorite by far is "Darwinist" or "Darwinism." It's like calling gravitational theory "Newtonism" or atomic theory "Daltonism."
Just plain silly.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostEasiest way is just sequence comparisons. So, take a current antibiotic resistance enzyme or nylonase or something like that, figure out what proteins it is most closely related to, then compare their genes. See which mutations occurred, make the intermediate proteins, and test those. You'll eventually figure out the pathway that took it from the past to the present.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostWell, with nylonase it appears to be essentially two selectable mutations, which no one disputes can happen. But to have a path of many mutations requires a search of protein space, which Dougas Axe has shown to be prohibitive.
Blessings,
Lee
Much of this work like the rest of the discovery institute base their work on the dishonest misuse of statistics and probability to justify a religious agenda, with a heavy dose of 'arguing from ignorance' and not the sound scientific research in the biological science related to the field of organic chemistry and evolution.
It is an unsubstantiated claim, and has not been shown to be prohibitive in the peer reviewed literature in the biological sciences..Last edited by shunyadragon; 10-27-2019, 09:20 AM.
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostWell, with nylonase it appears to be essentially two selectable mutations, which no one disputes can happen. But to have a path of many mutations requires a search of protein space, which Dougas Axe has shown to be prohibitive.
I'm not even sure what Axe's experiment is relevant to; it resembles nothing like anybody is suggesting happens in biology.
On a more general note: don't argue based on material from the Discovery Institute - they are invariably wrong."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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