Bill Nye The Idiot Guy

[Sparko]

In the improbable event that such a thing should happen, it would be shown that the identification of the fairy as a "fictional character" would be false: people who thereafter claimed that such a character was fictional would then fall into the same general category as flat earthers. A rational person would not deny the existence of reality just because it did not conform to his demands and definitions.

correct.

Perhaps the author of the story experienced the real blue fairy and fictionalized her. Or perhaps she came from a parallel universe. or any other possible explanations would need to be explored because if I saw her, and talked to her and she granted me wishes that could be verified by others, then she fits the definition of a Blue Fairy. Tassman would deny reality to stay in his little cocoon of doubt.

[Adrift]

correct.

Perhaps the author of the story experienced the real blue fairy and fictionalized her. Or perhaps she came from a parallel universe. or any other possible explanations would need to be explored because if I saw her, and talked to her and she granted me wishes that could be verified by others, then she fits the definition of a Blue Fairy. Tassman would deny reality to stay in his little cocoon of doubt.

I'm reminded of William Lane Craig's point about the identity of the being who created the universe. It's sometimes suggested by skeptics that whatever brought the universe into being could have been some sort of interdimensional alien or something. Craig makes the point though, that if this alien has all the properties of what theists typically attribute to "God" then it doesn't really matter what you call it, it's a rose by any other name.

Another example that comes to mind is the existence of spiritual beings that others identify as gods. As a Christians I don't have a problem saying that there may be some spiritual reality behind Vishnu, Odin, Zeus, Baal, Ra and the like. While I may not accept every myth or divine act attributed to these beings, I don't deny that some very real supernatural acts may be attributed to spiritual beings that have been called these names.

[Sparko]

I'm reminded of William Lane Craig's point about the identity of the being who created the universe. It's sometimes suggested by skeptics that whatever brought the universe into being could have been some sort of interdimensional alien or something. Craig makes the point though, that if this alien has all the properties of what theists typically attribute to "God" then it doesn't really matter what you call it, it's a rose by any other name.

Another example that comes to mind is the existence of spiritual beings that others identify as gods. As a Christians I don't have a problem saying that there may be some spiritual reality behind Vishnu, Odin, Zeus, Baal, Ra and the like. While I may not accept every myth or divine act attributed to these beings, I don't deny that some very real supernatural acts may be attributed to spiritual beings that have been called these names.

I am also reminded that scientists believe that if the universe is infinite, or if their are infinite universes, then anything that can possibly exist or have happened will happen somewhere. So there could be a universe where Star Trek is real, where Blue Fairies exist, where magic works, where Tassman is the pope, etc.

[Bill the Cat]

The proscription re incest was primarily because of the dangers of inbreeding and resultant possible abnormalities, not because it was immoral per se.

But face it, you lot will object to any form of sexuality that's outside of hetero marriage and not for the strict purpose of reproduction.

Boy, that slippery slope just keeps getting funner and funner!

pool-slide-fall-head-first-942567.gif

[tabibito]

Oddly, there doesn't seem to have been a proscription on incest prior to the exodus.

[Roy]

I am also reminded that scientists believe that if the universe is infinite, or if their are infinite universes, then anything that can possibly exist or have happened will happen somewhere.

Strictly speaking that requires the universe(s) to be infinite and non-repeating.

[Sparko]

Strictly speaking that requires the universe(s) to be infinite and non-repeating.

if it is infinite it can repeat itself and still be infinitely different.

But if the "many worlds" theory is correct, every single thing that could go either way, from quantum particles to your decision to eat a donut or bacon for breakfast goes all possible ways and splits off into infinite universes, starting at the big bang. So there would be infinite universes out there, each different from the next. Different events, even down to physical laws.

[Sparko]

Thanks to Apologiaphoenix, watch this video by David Wood that pretty much mirrors my debate here with Tassman almost exactly and shows that he is close-minded and in denial and not an actual skeptic at all.

17 minutes but well worth the watch.

[oxmixmudd]

The point is that the Blue Fairy appears in the nineteenth century fairy tale story of Pinocchio. It's a 'made-up' story. So if you believe that she granted you wishes you would do better to look for a natural explanation for how this occurred rather than assume she was 'real'. Only the most gullible would do that.

If you know a story is made up - as we do with Ponocchio - then there is no reason what-so-ever to believe in whatever supernatural entities are part of that story.

But you seem to be trying to equate belief in things KNOWN to be made up, and belief in things that are recounted as part of someone's actual, real experience.

They are not the same thing.

And it is a bit foolish (and presumptuous) to believe one necessarily has the capacity in all cases to determine the validity of the recounted experience of another.

People believe in God because of their own experience, and possibly also because of they believe the stories told by others of a trustworthy disposition and with similar or extra-ordianary experiences. In each of these cases the tellers believe their experiences to be real. They know they have not made them up. And this is what causes other people to believe their stories over and above a story invented for the enhancement of an art form, or to make money, or just because one likes to write.

Jim

[Jedidiah]

He says that he would believe in the existence of a fictional character if he was granted verifiable wishes by that character. But if wishes are "verified" in such circumstances then clearly the verification process is wrong, because fictional characters do not grant wishes. By definition they do not actually exist. Do you compre?

In other words, your prejudice trumps any actual evidence than could, hypothetically, be found.

[Tassman]

In the improbable event that such a thing should happen, it would be shown that the identification of the fairy as a "fictional character" would be false: people who thereafter claimed that such a character was fictional would then fall into the same general category as flat earthers. A rational person would not deny the existence of reality just because it did not conform to his demands and definitions.

[Tassman]

I would assume that she was a blue fairy, not the same one in the story. duh. Seeing a blue fairy, talking to her, and her granting me wishes that could be verified would be pretty strong proof, Tassman. Using your standards you probably doubt that you even exist yourself.

Back-peddling much?

I specifically said several times the I was referring to the FICTIONAL Blue Fairy from the nineteenth Fairy Tale about Pinocchio.

correct.

Perhaps the author of the story experienced the real blue fairy and fictionalized her. Or perhaps she came from a parallel universe. or any other possible explanations would need to be explored because if I saw her, and talked to her and she granted me wishes that could be verified by others, then she fits the definition of a Blue Fairy. Tassman would deny reality to stay in his little cocoon of doubt.

OR, perhaps some people are gullible and believe any unexplained occurrence is a miracle.

[Tassman]

If you know a story is made up - as we do with Ponocchio - then there is no reason what-so-ever to believe in whatever supernatural entities are part of that story.

But you seem to be trying to equate belief in things KNOWN to be made up, and belief in things that are recounted as part of someone's actual, real experience.

They are not the same thing.

And it is a bit foolish (and presumptuous) to believe one necessarily has the capacity in all cases to determine the validity of the recounted experience of another.

Really! You think it's "foolish and presumptuous" not to believe stories unsupported by credible evidence? I disagree. Surely the reverse is true.

People believe in God because of their own experience, and possibly also because of they believe the stories told by others of a trustworthy disposition and with similar or extra-ordianary experiences. In each of these cases the tellers believe their experiences to be real. They know they have not made them up. And this is what causes other people to believe their stories over and above a story invented for the enhancement of an art form, or to make money, or just because one likes to write.

[oxmixmudd]

I believe because my life experience tells me I should. I have always, since I was very young, sensed the presence of God in a church service or a time of prayer. many of my life experiences incorporate direct answers to prayer that though they likely are not events you would find convincing due to your own belief all such events are not evidence of a God or Gods, are nevertheless very powerful testimony of God's presence and love for me and others.

Those events are not any less real than any other events in a person's life just because you could find a way to force fit them into your own realm of belief where there is no God or gods.


And I would not be better off to deny them. In fact, to deny them, I would have to first stop believing in God, and even then some of them would make no sense at all in a godless universe and would always stand before me as a challenge to such a decision to abandon belief in god.

Consider if you were one who came to the empty tomb and witnessed the angels speaking to you. That later you saw Christ raised and reached out and felt the holes from the nails. And that you later saw Him ascend to heaven with 120 others. Could you then choose not to believe?

I could not, and so I can not, such are my experiences in life with God.

Jim

[Sparko]

Back-peddling much?

I specifically said several times the I was referring to the FICTIONAL Blue Fairy from the nineteenth Fairy Tale about Pinocchio.

uh no. you just kept saying "the blue fairy" - feel free to show me wrong.

But I don't care if it was the blue fairy from Pinocchio. If the wicked witch from Oz appeared to me and did verifiable magic then she would be real. duh. You would need to find an explanation of how she ended up in the fictional story, not claim she is still fictional if there is verifiable evidence she is real.