Bill Nye The Idiot Guy

[Sparko]

There are no moral consequences to being left or right handed. It's a bad example. It is not a "behavior"

What if pedophilia is something you are born with? Or wanting to rape women? Does that make it OK to do those things?

[TheLurch]

There are no moral consequences to being left or right handed. It's a bad example. It is not a "behavior"

What if pedophilia is something you are born with? Or wanting to rape women? Does that make it OK to do those things?

It's pretty clear that this thread has shifted to a discussion of morality. Could it be moved from Natural Science to some place more appropriate?

[seer]

It's pretty clear that this thread has shifted to a discussion of morality. Could it be moved from Natural Science to some place more appropriate?

I believe I originally posted this on Civics - then someone moved it here.

[Tassman]

I'm not saying you should change left handedness, only that is doesn't cause harm. At least it didn't for me

It's well documented that forcing left-handed people to use their right hand can cause problems. There's no good reason for doing it in any event.

But that makes no sense, in groups of dolphins or higher primates, or other species, where forced sex is regularly practiced there is no obvious loss of social cohesion. Their societies still thrive. As a matter a fact as my second link suggests rape may offer a real adaptive advantage.

Every social species maintains social cohesion in its own way. What dolphins and our fellow primates find acceptable behaviour is not necessarily what human society regards as acceptable.

[Jedidiah]

Every social species maintains social cohesion in its own way. What dolphins and our fellow primates find acceptable behaviour is not necessarily what human society regards as acceptable.

We have tried to tell you this many times in connection with homosexuality and transxxx, but you can't hear it in those cases.

[Leonhard]

I'm not saying you should change left handedness, only that is doesn't cause harm. At least it didn't for me.

[seer]

Every social species maintains social cohesion in its own way. What dolphins and our fellow primates find acceptable behaviour is not necessarily what human society regards as acceptable.

But rape is not necessarily detrimental to social cohesion, as you claimed, it certainly is not with higher primates. So if it not detrimental to cohesion then why would it be wrong, in your world? And remember you are the one who brought up a defense of homosexuality because it was found in the animal kingdom.

[Sparko]

I am left-handed but by practicing I can write with either hand. I also learned to play guitar right-handed so it feels natural to me. I also bat right handed in baseball. Left-handers learn to do a lot of things the right-handed way because that is just easier for us. It doesn't screw up our heads. If anything it makes us more flexible. Ambidextrous.

But again, left-handedness is nothing like sexual orientation. to try to use it as an analogy is stupid.

I notice tassy has ignored my posts asking

What if pedophilia is something you are born with? Or wanting to rape women? Does that make it OK to do those things?

[HMS_Beagle]

But again, left-handedness is nothing like sexual orientation. to try to use it as an analogy is stupid.

Actually it's a very good analogy. Both non-hetero orientation and left-handedness are not 100% genetic but both do have a heritable genetic component. Neither are consciously chosen. Both are harmless. Both groups have been at various times ostracized by society for no other reason than they were "different".

What if pedophilia is something you are born with? Or wanting to rape women? Does that make it OK to do those things?

Both pedophilia and rape cause demonstrable harm to the victim. Non-hetero orientation causes zero harm to anyone except maybe to the ego of those harboring unreasonable prejudices.

[seer]

Both pedophilia and rape cause demonstrable harm to the victim. Non-hetero orientation causes zero harm to anyone except maybe to the ego of those harboring unreasonable prejudices.

Well Sparko was responding to Tass who claimed that rape was wrong specifically because it undermined social cohesion. But the fact is it does not do so with other species, even with higher primates. So social cohesion was Tass' standard (and bad one), yours now is "harm." But harm to whom? The victim? But why does the victim's pain outweigh the aggressor's pleasure? All rather arbitrary - don't you think?

[Sparko]

Actually it's a very good analogy. Both non-hetero orientation and left-handedness are not 100% genetic but both do have a heritable genetic component. Neither are consciously chosen. Both are harmless. Both groups have been at various times ostracized by society for no other reason than they were "different".




Both pedophilia and rape cause demonstrable harm to the victim. Non-hetero orientation causes zero harm to anyone except maybe to the ego of those harboring unreasonable prejudices.

The argument wasn't if it were harmless or not. The argument was that if someone was born that way then we should allow it as natural because well, they were born that way. Christians have been arguing that being born some way is no reason to think a behavior is moral or good. So you guys argue back well if you were born left handed you wouldn't stop them from being left handed.

I said - yeah because being left handed isn't a moral thing. Being gay is. It is a moral behavior and should be judged on its own merits not whether someone was born gay or not.

And you just confirmed that. You don't judge pedophiles or rapists by whether they were born that way or not, you don't see that as an excuse. You judge those behaviors on their own merits or lack thereof. Being born with it doesn't even come into play.

Same with homosexuality. It is either moral or immoral regardless of how someone got that way. Being born that way has no bearing on it. So stop using that as an excuse, liberals.

[Starlight]

being left handed isn't a moral thing. Being gay is.

Wrong.

[seer]

Wrong.

Wrong. Now what?

[Sea of red]

The argument wasn't if it were harmless or not. The argument was that if someone was born that way then we should allow it as natural because well, they were born that way. Christians have been arguing that being born some way is no reason to think a behavior is moral or good. So you guys argue back well if you were born left handed you wouldn't stop them from being left handed.

I said - yeah because being left handed isn't a moral thing. Being gay is. It is a moral behavior and should be judged on its own merits not whether someone was born gay or not.

And you just confirmed that. You don't judge pedophiles or rapists by whether they were born that way or not, you don't see that as an excuse. You judge those behaviors on their own merits or lack thereof. Being born with it doesn't even come into play.

Same with homosexuality. It is either moral or immoral regardless of how someone got that way. Being born that way has no bearing on it. So stop using that as an excuse, liberals.

Ummm, the reason we talk about homosexuality being genetic is because Christians constantly talk about how being homosexual or bisexual is some sort of a choice, when we have every reason to think it is genetic. I haven't seen anyone argue that because it is natural that its therefor moral, but what they've actually argued is that because it is natural it must be genetic and therefor, not a choice we make. No different than your preferences for hair color on women.

Seems like conservatives are always moving the damn goal post.

[Starlight]

Now what?

You guys apologize to LGBT people for being hurting them with your sociopathic views over the last several decades, you recognize their human rights, and you resolve not to do evil toward your fellow humans in the future. Hopefully one day they will eventually find it within themselves to forgive you for the horrific wrongs you've done them.

If you're feeling religious you can also pray to your imaginary god for forgiveness for your many sins towards LGBT people, and ask him not to punish you in the afterlife for all the horrible things you've done to this group of people.