Sodom and Gomorrah Discovered

[tabibito]

Is the lack of cult relics in the region also attributable to climate?

It is true that very dry conditions exist in southern Israel in the Negev and eastward of the Jordan River Valley. However, along the central and northern coast in northern Israel near the Sea of Galilee, and along the highlands on which Jerusalem sits, temperatures are much cooler and bountiful rainfall occurs. The average annual rainfall in northern Israel and along the highlands typically exceeds 15 inches

Pretty much: If the climate will allow olive trees to grow, pigs will be happy. Given that rainfall averages in the Middle East have decreased since 2000 BC - there is no reason to blame climate for any lack of pigs that may have occurred in Israel from 2000 BC and forward.

[Mr. Anderson]

The problem of the lack of pig bones can be attributed to the climate and the culture. No Neolithic to early Iron Age pastoral culture in semi arid to arid climate in human history that raised pigs for food. The Hebrew originally were a pastoral culture in a semiarid to arid region In the Middle East those cultures that raised pigs as a part of their diet were pretty much in river valleys like the Nile, and mesic climate cultures on the coast and north of the range of the Hebrew Culture. There is disagreement among anthropologists as to why ancient cultures did or did not eat swine, but the facts of the climate influence is clear.

The Iron Age Hilltop Settlements weren't located in a semi-arid to arid climate. So I'm assuming your speaking of where the hilltop culture arrived from. Which wouldn't be Canaan proper as many scholars think when they tie the roots of linguistic origins to those in Canaan or Ugarit from Syria. In doing so they suggest that the hilltop settlers were displaced Canaanites for the most part, with a mix from elsewhere in the desert south area. If this was the case the Canaanites would have brought their religious artifacts and immediately built discoverable places of worship like found elsewhere in Canaan. And they would have brought their pigs with them as they are found in various places throughout Canaan. So you must be suggesting the southern desert areas and the Negev exclusively. In which case they wouldn't have had pigs to bring. These are a distinctively different people group.

Middle Eastern ancient cultures including the Ugarit, Canaanite and pre-Babylonian are what I call 'Hierarchical Polytheistic' where there was a central most powerful God and lesser Gods, or Gods that are in some way subservient or specialized Gods under the Greater God. Some Gods are consider adversary Gods of other cultures. This is similar to the Vedic religions of India where Brahman is the Greater God among lesser Gods, or Gods that are in some way subservient or a part of or attributes of the Brahman.

But the nomadic peoples of the Desert areas are none of those cultures. They left no texts to be diciphered to allow them to be placed within the same classification of Hierarchical Polytheistic in a definite way. Inferred yes because scholars assume they have to have received their beliefs from some handy nearby source. I have a copy of the BAR June 2001 with 12 pages in reference to the Desert peoples and the standing stones with some inscriptions left on them. This was definitely a Yahwistic group of desert dwellers. Of course most stones also give evidence of Astheroth worship as well. I would argue that the consort, even the goddess type, may have been worshipped yet she was never the equal of the male deity. Personal opinion but logically arguable. This people group appears by your use of the, 'lack of pigs statement above", to be the group we find in the hilltop settlements. Or the majority of them.
Something occurred to these people that caused them to relocate to central Canaan, seperate themselves from religious artifacts and cult worship sites made of stone to any semblance of polytheistic beliefs,and to leave the artifacts of Astheroth behind. As well as gaining the immediate ability to terrace and irrigate the land, and build a form of housing unique to their time. And this culture did exist for a limited period of time before it devolved back to a polytheistic type culture.

[shunyadragon]

Is the lack of cult relics in the region also attributable to climate?

Who said that?!?!?! It is pastoral culture in the uplands around Palestine that the Hebrews migrated from lead to primarily goats and sheep.

Pretty much: If the climate will allow olive trees to grow, pigs will be happy. Given that rainfall averages in the Middle East have decreased since 2000 BC - there is no reason to blame climate for any lack of pigs that may have occurred in Israel from 2000 BC and forward.

The answer is no, it remains a fact that the region was semi arid that the Hebrews were originally from more pastoral, raising sheep and goats. The cultures who had pigs remain the higher rainfall coastal areas and the river valleys, like the Nile, in this period. The history of the Neolithic was a regional drop in rainfall. The semiarid regions around the Palestine regions became deserts.

The natural habit for swine is predominately forested regions of the lowlands, river valleys and coastal regions in the Middle East.

[tabibito]

Who said that?!?!?! It is pastoral culture in the uplands around Palestine that lead to primarily goats and sheep.

Well - the lack of pig bones (and it was an aside) was one part of the post regarding distinctive qualities of the peoples concerned: the main point was - there are no cultic relics. Moreover, the post concerned did say that these factors distinguished this people from the surrounding peoples. My comment was intended to highlight the cherry picking the side issue and ignoring the main issue.

The answer is no, it remains a fact that the region was is semi arid and the Hebrews were originally more pastoral, raising sheep and goats. The cultures who had pigs remain the higher rainfall coastal areas and the river valleys, like the Nile, in this period.

at all Iron Age IIB sites in the lowlands territory of the Northern Kingdom (Israel) pig remains reach high values of 3.2–7.8% (unfortunately, no data from sites in the highlands sector of the Northern Kingdom are available)But the most drastic difference is the one between Israel and Judah. Pig remains are nearly absent from Iron Age IIB sites located in the territory of the Kingdom of Judah. The same holds true for in the highlands west of Jerusalem and for an Iron Age IIB assemblage from the recent ‘Wailing Wall excavations’ in Jerusalem. (the semi-arid area is the only one to standout, with more than 3% pigs. Aroer, as a way-station on the ancient road which connected south Arabia with the Mediterranean littoral, had a unique identity and hence the faunal assemblage of this site may represent food habits of many different people who traveled along the road

So much for rivers and coastlines - this places pigs predominantly in semi-arid areas (when referring to their presence within the territory of Judah).
The information above reflects the expectations that arise from information in my post #179 - and that information was firmly based on the Biblical record.

[shunyadragon]

Well - the lack of pig bones (and it was an aside) was one part of the post regarding distinctive qualities of the peoples concerned: the main point was - there are no cultic relics. Moreover, the post concerned did say that these factors distinguished this people from the surrounding peoples. My comment was intended to highlight the cherry picking the side issue and ignoring the main issue.

Read again carefully. The result supports my view. Note the reasoning behind the only exception with direct trade with the coastal area.

Source: http://www.academia.edu/4062281/Pig_Husbandry_in_Iron_Age_Israel_and_Judah

Age IIB sites in the lowlands territory of the Northern Kingdom (Israel) pig remains reach high values of 3.2–7.8% (unfortunately, no data from sites in the highlands sector of the Northern Kingdom are available)But the most drastic difference is the one between Israel and Judah. Pig remains are nearly absent from Iron Age IIB sites located in the territory of the Kingdom of Judah. The same holds true for in the highlands west of Jerusalem and for an Iron Age IIB assemblage from the recent ‘Wailing Wall excavations’ in Jerusalem. (the semi-arid area is the only one to standout, with more than 3% pigs. Aroer, as a way-station on the ancient road which connected south Arabia with the Mediterranean littoral, had a unique identity and hence the faunal assemblage of this site may represent food habits of many different people who traveled along the road.

© Copyright Original Source

Again, all the pastoral cultures of the world do not raise pigs for food. The Hebrews were a pastoral culture, and the noted exceptions have explanations.

[tabibito]

But the most drastic difference is the one between Israel and Judah. Pig remains are nearly absent from Iron Age IIB sites located in the territory of the Kingdom of Judah. The same holds true for in the highlands west of Jerusalem and for an Iron Age IIB assemblage from the recent ‘Wailing Wall excavations’ in Jerusalem.

A specific subsection of ancient Israel shows an absence of pigs - that area is the territory of Judah.
The ten tribes of the northern kingdom did have piggeries - only the tribal territory of Judah shows the absence you have referred to. Only Judah according to the Bible, and according to your own comments (it was not a majority religious practice through most of the pre-Babylonian-exile period), consistently adhered to YHVH worship.
The anomaly is one small part of Judah where pigs were found was on a major trade route, and the find is attributed to the mix of peoples which can be expected in such places.
The article shows that pigs were common enough in semi-arid regions, and in hill country - which you have declared was not the case.

[shunyadragon]

A specific subsection of ancient Israel shows an absence of pigs - that area is the territory of Judah.
The ten tribes of the northern kingdom did have piggeries - only the tribal territory of Judah shows the absence you have referred to. Only Judah according to the Bible, and according to your own comments (it was not a majority religious practice through most of the pre-Babylonian-exile period), consistently adhered to YHVH worship.
The anomaly is one small part of Judah where pigs were found was on a major trade route, and the find is attributed to the mix of peoples which can be expected in such places.
The article shows that pigs were common enough in semi-arid regions, and in hill country - which you have declared was not the case.

What you cited was the presence of pigs in the lowlands of northern coastal region which is consistent with my view, cultures raising swine is consistent with the natural habitat of swine. There are no pastoral cultures from the Neolithic to the Early Iron Age that raised pigs for food. They all herded sheep, goats and in some cased cattle.

The classic example of the distribution of domesticated and origins of domestic animals is eastern Asia. In the Xinjiang region of Western China and Mongolia in the north were pastoral cultures with sheep and goats. There were never any pigs in these regions because: (1) Pigs were never native nor suited to the pastoral culture climate relationship. (The energy and water relationships of these regions were far better suited for sheep and goats.

In the lowlands and river valleys of Central, Southern and Eastern China the pigs are endemic and an important part of culture going back to at least the early Neolithic. The Middle East follows the same pattern. The inland pastoral cultures were herders of sheep and goats, and the coastal and river valley cultures also had swine, which was endemic to those regions.

What are the important habitat requirements of swine habitat.

Source: http://animals.pawnation.com/natural-habitat-pig-1473.html

Adaptable Beasts

Pigs are adaptable animals that can live virtually anywhere. They make themselves comfortable in climates both warm and hot. As long as they have access to water, food and shelter, they can make do. Pigs don't have many natural predators, and because they reproduce quickly and eat almost anything they can get their snouts around, they are able to adapt to a wide variety of locales.

Preferred Habitats

Feral pigs are non-migratory animals, so they inhabit only those regions with favorable climates. In the United States, for instance, feral pigs live in the south and southeast of the country as well as on the California coast. While pigs can tolerate living in colder northern climates -- after all, plenty of pig farms operate in the north -- wild pigs gravitate to warmer areas close to water. Pigs in the wild generally don't live more than a day's walk away from a source of water.

© Copyright Original Source

You cited the following:

"It is true that very dry conditions exist in southern Israel in the Negev and eastward of the Jordan River Valley. However, along the central and northern coast in northern Israel near the Sea of Galilee, and along the highlands on which Jerusalem sits, temperatures are much cooler and bountiful rainfall occurs. The average annual rainfall in northern Israel and along the highlands typically exceeds 15 inches.

[shunyadragon]

Well - the lack of pig bones (and it was an aside) was one part of the post regarding distinctive qualities of the peoples concerned: the main point was - there are no cultic relics. Moreover, the post concerned did say that these factors distinguished this people from the surrounding peoples. My comment was intended to highlight the cherry picking the side issue and ignoring the main issue.

.
Not ignoring the main issue at all, but addressing both in the post. There are both distinguishing features in every culture, but there are also shared cultural attributes between Hebrews and the surrounding cultures, like language, scripture and religion.

You've got Dever responding in a limited fashion during an interview about the Iron age hilltop settlements. In his book, quoted in an earlier post he give the full on description of what was found within the remains. Of the more than 300 discovered village sites they have found only one small isolated hilltop shrine in the Samaria hills, with an alter platform, and one large standing stone (masseba), a terra cotta cult stand and a well preserved bronze bull figurine. Suggesting connections to the Canaanite cult of the male deity El, whose principle epithet was "Bull El." El remained one of the two names of the Israelite national god.

[tabibito]

What you cited was the presence of pigs in the lowlands of northern coastal region which is consistent with my view.

The classic example of the distribution of domesticated and origins of domestic animals is eastern Asia. In the Xinjiang region of Western China and Mongolia in the north were pastoral cultures with sheep and goats.

What the! - Xinjiang region has a climate nothing like that of the Mediterranean.

The Northern Kingdoms became Samaria

Pigs were almost entirely absent in the tribal territory of Judah Tell es-Seba (the semi-arid area; current annual precipitation is 200mm) is the only one to standout, with more than 3% pigs. The only significant find of pigs in the kingdom of Judah is in semi-arid highland halfway between the coast and the inland sea: the southernmost marked town on the map
.
9-b077708ccf.jpg

[shunyadragon]

. . . (it was not a majority religious practice through most of the pre-Babylonian-exile period), consistently adhered to YHVH worship.

there is no evidence for monotheistic worship of YHVH worship in the pre-Babylonian exile period.

[shunyadragon]

What the! - Xinjiang region has a climate nothing like that of the Mediterranean.

The upland Xinjiang region has climate very similar with the uplands of the Middle East such as Judah. Another similarity like the city on the trade route. East of Xinjiang on the Silk Road you will begin to have evidence of swine where the cultures mixed from east to west.

Pigs were almost entirely absent in the tribal territory of Judah Tell es-Seba (the semi-arid area; current annual precipitation is 200mm) is the only one to standout, with more than 3% pigs. The only significant find of pigs in the kingdom of Judah is in semi-arid highland halfway between the coast and the inland sea: the southernmost marked town on the map
.

Over all climate with distinctive dry seasons like Judah and Xinjiang are not suited to swine which requires near access to water year round. Evidence of Feral nor domesticated swine were never found in these regions. Judah is in a region suited to sheep and goats. The only town was on a trade route between the coast and Arabia where evidence of pig consumption was found.

[tabibito]

What you cited was the presence of pigs in the lowlands of northern coastal region which is consistent with my view.

The Northern Kingdoms came to be known as Samaria.

The classic example of the distribution of domesticated and origins of domestic animals is eastern Asia. In the Xinjiang region of Western China and Mongolia in the north were pastoral cultures with sheep and goats.

What the! - Xinjiang region has a climate nothing like that of the Mediterranean.

Pigs were almost entirely absent in the tribal territory of Judah South East of Tell es-Seba (the semi-arid area; current annual precipitation is 200mm) is the only one to standout, with more than 3% pigs.

The only significant find of pigs in the kingdom of Judah is in semi-arid land halfway between the coast and the inland sea: the southernmost marked town on the map
.
9-b077708ccf.jpg

In order to better understand the striking differences between Israel and Judah in the Iron AgeIIB it is necessary to view the long-term patterns of pig consumption during preceding as well as later periods (Table 1).In the Late Bronze Age II–III, the decision regarding pig raising was made locally: pigs were raised in certain Canaanite centers such as Megiddo, Lakish, and Ekron
while they were not exploited at neighboring sites near Megiddo and Beth-Shemesh. Pigs were also absent in the highland sites of Shiloh and Tell Dotan
; however, in Shiloh they do appear in much greater numbers in the Middle BronzeAge . Pigs are present at two sites that are associated with Egyptian rule:
. In the latter site their numbers are larger than at any other Late Bronze Age site in the southern Levant. Possibly, pig-preference at Beth-Shean reflects the culinary habits of Egyptian soldiers and administrators deployed at the site

In short, there is nothing to suggest that topography or climate had any influence. Where pigs were in evidence prior to the known presence of the Hebrews, they were absent after their settlement.

If that lot doesn't satisfy, page 11 of the report should.

[shunyadragon]

The Northern Kingdoms came to be known as Samaria.

What the! - Xinjiang region has a climate nothing like that of the Mediterranean.

Yes they have similar upland climates.



The only significant find of pigs in the kingdom of Judah is in semi-arid land halfway between the coast and the inland sea: the southernmost marked town on the map
.
9-b077708ccf.jpg

In short, there is nothing to suggest that topography or climate had any influence. Where pigs were in evidence prior to the known presence of the Hebrews, they were absent after their settlement.

If that lot doesn't satisfy, page 11 of the report should.

What you referenced did not support your argument.

Yes the climate is not suited to swine.

[tabibito]

Page 11 of the report:

The most intriguing pattern discovered at sites from the Iron Age IIA–B is the dichotomy between Israel and Judah
45
. In the lowlands, pigs do not appear in the Judahite Shephelah, while they do appear in large numbers in the Jezreel Valley sites of the Northern Kingdom,especially in the Iron Age IIB.

Lowland compared with lowland.

[shunyadragon]

From page 2 of your source . . .

Source: https://www.academia.edu/4062281/Pig_Husbandry_in_Iron_Age_Israel_and_Judah

1.1. Background Information on Pig Husbandry

The wild boar was quite common in many terminal Pleistocene and early Holocene prehistoric sites


In the 3rd and 4th mill., almost all sites in the non-arid zones of the Fertile Crescent show an occurrence of (domesticated) pigs higher than 7%, with a close correlation between environmental conditions and pig frequencies

9. The abundance of pigs depended on rainfall, with 300mm isohyet as the limit. Starting in the 3rd mill., the appearance of pigs was affected by a combination of environmental, economic and social factors

10 . In studies on the Middle Bronze Age, pig frequency is considered a reference for sedentism.

11, as they cannot be driven far and are not part of nomadic animal husbandry, [pastoral]

12. The pig is one of the livestock animals raised in the southern Levant, but its relative frequency is usually significantly low compared to that of caprines [sheep and goats] or cattle (both dominating the zooarchaeological assemblages from the Bronze Age onward).

13. Pigs breed fast, and do not need to be driven to pasture when there is enough available food, such as vegetables and animal waste. They are usually exploited for their meat, considering the lack of secondary products that can be extracted from them. They cannot be driven far and hence domestic pigs are not suitable for nomadic life.

© Copyright Original Source

From your source!!!! There most definitely are environmental and cultural reasons for the distribution pastoral cultures and more sedentary cultures consuming swine in lowlands and river valleys.

The dry season of Judah is a distinct factor limiting swine production in the region.