Johnny Mac says mental illness isn't real

[Christianbookworm]

If he's referring to overmedicalization of human issues, he still could have phrased it better. For example, if someone has anxiety, it's a good idea to figure out if there's a reason they are anxious and not jumping to conclusions that it's irrational and not caused by the environment. The issue is that he has invalidated the experiences of people who've had traumatic experiences in the past.

[Christianbookworm]

Time and conservative evangelical culture. Probably not as prevalent now, but a few decades ago, it was kind of common for evangelicals to treat mental illness kinda sorta the way Word-Faith people treat physical illness.

Yeah, I read an old booklet once that claimed adhd was just a sin issue. Now, obviously it wouldn't be okay to act like a jerk and blame it on adhd, but if someone genuinely has executive function issues and genuinely didn't intend to act in a negative fashion, where's the meas rea? Sin is an intentional act of choosing not to love God with all we are and not love our neighbor.

[NorrinRadd]

John’s sermon this morning is clarifying what was said in the original discussion.

I’ll try to remember to post the link to the sermon when it becomes an available online. If you’re honest, you’ll listen to it.

I'll listen. I've checked the GTY (is that where it will be?) site a few times, and the most recent one is still April 28.

First place I saw the clip was via Gavin Ortlund, then that "Ruslan" mook. Now there are tons of YouTube responses. Took me a while to find one even giving fuller context.

[NorrinRadd]

Yeah, I read an old booklet once that claimed adhd was just a sin issue. Now, obviously it wouldn't be okay to act like a jerk and blame it on adhd, but if someone genuinely has executive function issues and genuinely didn't intend to act in a negative fashion, where's the meas rea? Sin is an intentional act of choosing not to love God with all we are and not love our neighbor.

I do have to admit, I laughed hard at the old "South Park" ep. about ADHD and Ritalin.

[Cerebrum123]

The book was not written by John. The psychiatrist that wrote it in 1961 said in the book that "mental illness" is a label that psychiatrists have used against people "disabled by living" rather than having a disease. As I said here previously, John said clearly today, and in the past, that he has no problem with brain disorders or diseases that can affect a person and cause mental issues.

He didn't write it, nor did I say he wrote it. However, he did promote it. Why can't you admit that at least in that Q&A session that he said something horrible? What John MacArthur has said in other times and places does not change what he said in that video. It isn't a deep fake, and it wasn't edited. This whole situation reeks of him backpedaling after being called out or the Motte and Bailey tactic of argumentation.

Thanks for saying that you're "not saying you are lying".

I stated that because I've often had people accuse me of calling them a liar when pointing out things like this.

Again, I won't post here again until the link comes out. And it might behoove some of you young'uns to think that somebody who's been around for a long time, including me, might know what they are talking about.

Because that IS ageism.

Yes, the underlined is ageism because you are trying to cast doubt on what we are saying because of our age. Just because someone is older doesn't mean they automatically know better than someone who is younger than them. It only means that on average they are going to have more experience.

[Cerebrum123]

I'll listen. I've checked the GTY (is that where it will be?) site a few times, and the most recent one is still April 28.

First place I saw the clip was via Gavin Ortlund, then that "Ruslan" mook. Now there are tons of YouTube responses. Took me a while to find one even giving fuller context.

Well, here is the entire Q&A session it was from.

[mossrose]

I'll listen. I've checked the GTY (is that where it will be?) site a few times, and the most recent one is still April 28.

First place I saw the clip was via Gavin Ortlund, then that "Ruslan" mook. Now there are tons of YouTube responses. Took me a while to find one even giving fuller context.

His Sunday messages are usually up in audio about a week later, and the video takes a while longer. Not sure when the transcript is up. Thanks for being willing to listen.

[mossrose]

He didn't write it, nor did I say he wrote it. However, he did promote it. Why can't you admit that at least in that Q&A session that he said something horrible? What John MacArthur has said in other times and places does not change what he said in that video. It isn't a deep fake, and it wasn't edited. This whole situation reeks of him backpedaling after being called out or the Motte and Bailey tactic of argumentation.

And I didn’t say you did say he wrote it. I was simply stating a fact.

I stated that because I've often had people accuse me of calling them a liar when pointing out things like this.

I would never call you a liar. I thought you knew me well enough to return the honour.





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Yes, the underlined is ageism because you are trying to cast doubt on what we are saying because of our age. Just because someone is older doesn't mean they automatically know better than someone who is younger than them. It only means that on average they are going to have more experience.

And some here are trying to cast doubt on MacArthur's age; THAT'S all I was saying. I was in no way implying that younger people don’t know what they’re talking about.

And I guess I got sucked in to the discussion after all.

[Cerebrum123]

And I didn’t say you did say he wrote it. I was simply stating a fact.

It's an irrelevant fact when he's actively promoting that book and another one that claims that mental illness isn't real. If his position is that mental illnesses are real, but are often overdiagnosed and overmedicated, then promoting such materials severely undermines his claims and authority.

I would never call you a liar. I thought you knew me well enough to return the honour.

I wouldn't call you a liar, which is why I said I'm not calling you one. I wanted that to be as clear as possible. Unless I am very explicit, people misunderstand me a lot. That is why I have to state things very plainly and explicitly and even then, it isn't a guarantee that people won't misunderstand me. Due to my autism, I've had to jump through hoops all of my life to get very simple concepts across to other people. Even after nearly 40 years of learning how to communicate better, people still often take what I say as something entirely different, or even completely the opposite of what I'm saying. It's like they see some kind of hidden code in my words that simply isn't there.

And some here are trying to cast doubt on MacArthur's age; THAT'S all I was saying. I was in no way implying that younger people don’t know what they’re talking about.

The problem is that you did so in such a way that casts doubt on those who are younger. The better option would be to simply say that age is irrelevant to the position's validity and what he's saying.

And I guess I got sucked in to the discussion after all.

TWeb is a debate site after all. It isn't a problem to have discussions and disagreements.

[mossrose]

Here is the audio. No video or transcript yet. He addresses the issue in the first half hour or so, and the rest is the sermon. Also worth listening to.

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-...ll-your-crises

[Cerebrum123]

Here is the audio. No video or transcript yet. He addresses the issue in the first half hour or so, and the rest is the sermon. Also worth listening to.

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-...ll-your-crises

I'll wait for the transcript as it is much easier for me to read than listen to.

[NorrinRadd]

I listened to the first 20 minutes. After that the sermon starts. I'll listen to that later. I too want to read the transcript also.

First impression: Mostly just doubling down on what he said in the interview. A few decent points around the 12-minute mark.

He did cite a phone call from a major expert in the field who totally agreed with him, but he did not name the expert.

[rogue06]

I agree with you, but MacArthur is going pretty far in his statements. Here is the video.

https://julieroys.com/wp-content/upl...Eud6ED.mp4?_=1

He's actively saying that PTSD is just grief and says that medicating certain conditions is causing people to become criminals and the like. Medication should be a last resort, but he's acting as if all of these conditions never need it, and people just need to get over their emotional issues. I know people with ADHD, I know people with PTSD, and I know many people with other conditions. Many of them need medication to function, and not because it was the first option.

The part where he describes it as a form of grief that people haven't come to terms with sounds like CBW is right about coming from a generation where it was largely regarded in that manner.

[Cerebrum123]

I decided to listen to it anyway since it was taking so long for the transcript. He just confirms my already low view of his prior statements. Not only does he declare that mental illnesses like ADHD*, PTSD, OCD, Schizophrenia, etc. aren't real but anyone who needs medication for them is morally deficient. He has several categories that for brain diseases that he says are real but those rule out mental illnesses that are not cancer, brain injuries, infections, or otherwise similarly detectable. It's really just more of the "toughen up and try harder" rhetoric that I and many others have dealt with for a very long time. Hint, it doesn't work. In fact, telling someone stuff like that when they have genuine problems can make the issue worse due to psychological reactance.

*One of the parts that really annoyed me is how he goes on about how ADHD is categorized because "it is annoying to teachers" but other more dangerous stuff isn't. There are no good options for how he wouldn't know that other more dangerous stuff is classified as a disorder. Antisocial Personality Disorder is a big one. He should not be teaching anyone on the topic of mental health, period.

[Cerebrum123]

The part where he describes it as a form of grief that people haven't come to terms with sounds like CBW is right about coming from a generation where it was largely regarded in that manner.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. I've met significantly younger people who take that view. Usually, they've never met someone with a bad case of PTSD.