As Delta Approaches...

[mikewhitney]

Whatever can help, Mike.......
But increased protection by vaccination against all manner of conditions, (as and when needed) from small pox, to flu, to various fevers, malaria etc.....and covid..... makes so much sense to us here.
We do have a very small % of vaccine deniers, but we think they are the bonkers fringe... so we vaccinate.

There can be general deniers that the vaccines are either safe or effective. Then there is the plain current, non-sensical application of that term to people who have seen the adverse effects of the experimental covid shots and do not want to be subject to human experimentation. Even the supposed protection of the covid shots is failing since the boosters are being promoted after 6 months. fail, fail, fail. And we have not even come to the first season to test the effectiveness of the covid shots (or the broader adverse effects) as the flu season approaches.

Also, to the flu shots, those are hardly worth any claim to fame. Even if at all effective, they tend to miss the actual flu that is going around. And the success rate, based on memory, is about 35%.

[eider]

There can be general deniers that the vaccines are either safe or effective. Then there is the plain current, non-sensical application of that term to people who have seen the adverse effects of the experimental covid shots and do not want to be subject to human experimentation. Even the supposed protection of the covid shots is failing since the boosters are being promoted after 6 months. fail, fail, fail. And we have not even come to the first season to test the effectiveness of the covid shots (or the broader adverse effects) as the flu season approaches.

Also, to the flu shots, those are hardly worth any claim to fame. Even if at all effective, they tend to miss the actual flu that is going around. And the success rate, based on memory, is about 35%.

When a majority of the population has already been vaccinated twice and Covid deaths and hospitalisations are falling away in those age groups, we are unlikely to take notice of your constant claim that they are experimental, but I do notice that the use of invermectine on humans is indeed still considered to be experimental.
I am a retired adults trainer, Mike ....... What do you work at?

[mikewhitney]

When a majority of the population has already been vaccinated twice and Covid deaths and hospitalisations are falling away in those age groups, we are unlikely to take notice of your constant claim that they are experimental, but I do notice that the use of invermectine on humans is indeed still considered to be experimental.
I am a retired adults trainer, Mike ....... What do you work at?

I am student of pandemics and mass psychosis. Do you know how long this mrna technology has been used on groups of humans? Have you researched the science studies that raise the future concerns? Ok. I have not checked deeply into the studies about the threats. However, here is a study

Anti–spike IgG causes severe acute lung injury by skewing macrophage responses during acute SARS-CoV infection https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/123158

Source: https://vaxxter.com/covid-vaccines-part-2/

• We present evidence of a detrimental role of the anti-S-IgG (anti-spike protein antibody) and acute lung injury during a SARS-CoV infection.
  • Vaccine-induced, spike-specific antibodies resulted in severe acute lung injury in SARS-CoV infected Chinese macaques
• Anti-S-IgG antibody failed to prevent SARS-CoV lower respiratory tract infection (pneumonia) and amplify (increase) M1 macrophage infiltration and accumulation in the lungs.
• Anti-S-IgG causes severe acute lung injury (ALI) when the lungs become re-infected and/or re-exposed to coronaviruses by removing the inflammation-resolving work of the M2 macrophages.
• Animals who died of SARS-CoV infection had an accumulation of pro-inflammatory M1 macrophages and an absence of wound-healing M2 macrophages in their lungs.
• Histological examination [the lung tissue of the sacrificed animals] in 6 of the vaccinated macaques revealed acute diffuse alveolar damage (DAD) with various degrees of severity. Most of the macaques in the control group given the non-spike protein vaccine showed only minor to moderate lung inflammation. (Note: alveoli are the tiny air sacs in the lungs that oxygenate the blood.)
• Without the presence of the anti-S-IgG antibodies, M2 macrophages began healing the lungs within two days of infection.

© Copyright Original Source

One weakness for our interests is that the study was about the damage to the lungs. There is a good question concerning those who got vaxxed and are in the hospital, namely whether those patients are now suffering lung/breathing issues. The covid-19 in 2020 was apparently a blood oxygen issue. Since the problem has been within the blood, the ventilators were proving to only add to the damage of the patient. In part, the medical staff may have preferred the ventilator since that equipment contained more of the air outtake from the patients -- and seemingly a less contagious environment for the workers.

The basic trouble and caution in the current array of covid shots being offered is that no science has been presented as a prerequisite to these current covid shots to show how the problem of disease enhancement (my generalized but non-technical term) as first resolved. Without the science ahead of release of these covid shots, we do not have reason to expect that these problems have been resolved. Remember that it is the subsequent exposure to (as I understand it) any coronavirus could trigger the M1 without the healing process of M2 available.

[mikewhitney]

but I do notice that the use of invermectine on humans is indeed still considered to be experimental.

That is not a true observation. There have been 63 trials on it from 2020 onward (c19ivermectin.com). It was not experimental in any typical sense of the word in 2020. Doctors had used this with patients during the early SARS season and found it to work with SARS-COV2. The studies were done to bring the successes to the forefront in the scientific and medical communities. If someone wishes to find specific errors in the best of the studies, that would be good for advancing the discussion. Stoic sort of tried to do this but the opinion piece in the BMJ merely complained about the meta-analysis of websites like the one I listed. The article did not offer its own improved meta analysis.

The benefits of Ivermectin (at all stages of the disease) has been demonstrated both in scientific analysis and in the field, among many doctors in various countries. Nor have I heard of any of these patients suffering from long covid.

[eider]

I am student of pandemics and mass psychosis.

Ah....... unqualified then? No previous foundation courses?

Do you know how long this mrna technology has been used on groups of humans?

Nope

Have you researched the science studies that raise the future concerns?

Nope

Ok. I have not checked deeply into the studies about the threats. However, here is a study

Anti–spike IgG causes severe acute lung injury by skewing macrophage responses during acute SARS-CoV infection https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/123158

Source: https://vaxxter.com/covid-vaccines-part-2/

• We present evidence of a detrimental role of the anti-S-IgG (anti-spike protein antibody) and acute lung injury during a SARS-CoV infection.
  • Vaccine-induced, spike-specific antibodies resulted in severe acute lung injury in SARS-CoV infected Chinese macaques
• Anti-S-IgG antibody failed to prevent SARS-CoV lower respiratory tract infection (pneumonia) and amplify (increase) M1 macrophage infiltration and accumulation in the lungs.
• Anti-S-IgG causes severe acute lung injury (ALI) when the lungs become re-infected and/or re-exposed to coronaviruses by removing the inflammation-resolving work of the M2 macrophages.
• Animals who died of SARS-CoV infection had an accumulation of pro-inflammatory M1 macrophages and an absence of wound-healing M2 macrophages in their lungs.
• Histological examination [the lung tissue of the sacrificed animals] in 6 of the vaccinated macaques revealed acute diffuse alveolar damage (DAD) with various degrees of severity. Most of the macaques in the control group given the non-spike protein vaccine showed only minor to moderate lung inflammation. (Note: alveoli are the tiny air sacs in the lungs that oxygenate the blood.)
• Without the presence of the anti-S-IgG antibodies, M2 macrophages began healing the lungs within two days of infection.

© Copyright Original Source

....By a student? A study by a student maybe? Or...who?

One weakness for our interests is that the study was about the damage to the lungs. There is a good question concerning those who got vaxxed and are in the hospital, namely whether those patients are now suffering lung/breathing issues. The covid-19 in 2020 was apparently a blood oxygen issue. Since the problem has been within the blood, the ventilators were proving to only add to the damage of the patient. In part, the medical staff may have preferred the ventilator since that equipment contained more of the air outtake from the patients -- and seemingly a less contagious environment for the workers.

So this study would have needed to tell our medics what to do, once a patient could not survive on oxygen alone.
Any ideas?

The basic trouble and caution in the current array of covid shots being offered is that no science has been presented as a prerequisite to these current covid shots to show how the problem of disease enhancement (my generalized but non-technical term) as first resolved. Without the science ahead of release of these covid shots, we do not have reason to expect that these problems have been resolved. Remember that it is the subsequent exposure to (as I understand it) any coronavirus could trigger the M1 without the healing process of M2 available.

Mike.......... you told us that a great % of vaccine recipients were going to die from blood clots. You told us that a huge % of PCR tests are 'false positives'.
You were wrong.
So why would we listen to you now?

[eider]

That is not a true observation. There have been 63 trials on it from 2020 onward (c19ivermectin.com). It was not experimental in any typical sense of the word in 2020. Doctors had used this with patients during the early SARS season and found it to work with SARS-COV2. The studies were done to bring the successes to the forefront in the scientific and medical communities. If someone wishes to find specific errors in the best of the studies, that would be good for advancing the discussion. Stoic sort of tried to do this but the opinion piece in the BMJ merely complained about the meta-analysis of websites like the one I listed. The article did not offer its own improved meta analysis.

The benefits of Ivermectin (at all stages of the disease) has been demonstrated both in scientific analysis and in the field, among many doctors in various countries. Nor have I heard of any of these patients suffering from long covid.

Mike, if our medics could have found a drug that could have saved hundreds of thousands, saved us from lock-downs and isolations....saved our economy.... we would have used it.
And Ivermectin for humans against covid is still experimental .........

But vaccination is now being rolled out for 16-17yr teens here...... it's the way that we have gone.

[mikewhitney]

Mike, if our medics could have found a drug that could have saved hundreds of thousands, saved us from lock-downs and isolations....saved our economy.... we would have used it.
And Ivermectin for humans against covid is still experimental .........

But vaccination is now being rolled out for 16-17yr teens here...... it's the way that we have gone.

Oh my gosh. There are a lot of politics going on. A review of the studies shows that this is not experimental. Even if it were, it would be best to take Ivermectin in order to avoid hospital stays if possible. Don't be carried by the ignorance or laziness of the medical system to accept the science. Just look at it a bit. look at the doctors who have had success with it. They share the information because it has worked for them. Right now as I have heard it, people are being stuck on ventilators where they have 85% chance of dying from that. Should we take all patients to the edge of death before treating them?

[mikewhitney]

Ah....... unqualified then? No previous foundation courses?


....By a student? A study by a student maybe? Or...who?


So this study would have needed to tell our medics what to do, once a patient could not survive on oxygen alone.
Any ideas?


Mike.......... you told us that a great % of vaccine recipients were going to die from blood clots. You told us that a huge % of PCR tests are 'false positives'.
You were wrong.
So why would we listen to you now?

So you have studied none of this stuff but you protest what the science shows. The medics act improperly to continue ventilation when it has not worked. The problem of the ventilators was revealed by a doctor in New York who shared this problem in the first months. Just step out of your comfort zone ... your hopium and see what doctors have experienced..

As to the blood clots, i'm don't recall having percentages in mind or sharing them. Don't worry for yourself. It is mainly teenage boys who die from the blood clots. However, there are neurological problems that could possibly be from clots -- my guess of this mode of progression to neurological problems in these people.

The analysis of PCR is that they give positive results that have no clinical significance in 97% of the situation. Those are facts, even if I used unscientific language in saying the PCR process was giving false positives. This information is not my personal information. It is those medical doctors an scientists who have seen the problems and share the warnings with us. They cannot help it if people have jumped into mass hysteria to take the wrong actions.

If I am wrong, then the medical doctors are lying about patients being cured. The scientific studies are all wrong. If they are all wrong, then the trials for the experimental covid shots are all wrong. You are heading into nihilism. At that point it is only logical for you to just say you don't know anything helpful in the discussion. There just are not a lot of choices in the path you are formulating here.

[mikewhitney]

The other way to look at the present situation...

You can try to guess why the medics are not paying attention to the effective treatments such as Ivermectin

OR

You can look at the science and the scientific discussions to see what the best scientific evidence is.

The purpose of science was to get beyond cultural beliefs and speculations by doing scientifically repeatable studies. That is what I am trying to share here.

If the studies I share are not contradicted by a trustworthy and better study, the studies I share should be the best advice we have now. If you feel the medics you are with have shown better scientific studies, then go with them. If they have unsupported practices, then consider getting medical treatments elsewhere.

[eider]

So you have studied none of this stuff but you protest what the science shows.

Mike, I have not protested what science shows. From the beginning of our posts I have repeated, again and again, that if our hospital cases and deaths reduce, that this will be my guide.
And our hospital cases and deaths have reduced....... and we are mostly all vaccinated. That's what I have protested.

The medics act improperly to continue ventilation when it has not worked. The problem of the ventilators was revealed by a doctor in New York who shared this problem in the first months. Just step out of your comfort zone ... your hopium and see what doctors have experienced..

At the point where a patient cannot survive on oxygen alone, then there is not much else that medics can do. And you can't advise anything else either, I suspect.
I asked if you had any ideas........ you don't.

As to the blood clots, i'm don't recall having percentages in mind or sharing them. Don't worry for yourself. It is mainly teenage boys who die from the blood clots. However, there are neurological problems that could possibly be from clots -- my guess of this mode of progression to neurological problems in these people.

How soon we forget, Mike. And when we have vaccinated all teenaged males, will you forget that you told me the above?

The analysis of PCR is that they give positive results that have no clinical significance in 97% of the situation. Those are facts, even if I used unscientific language in saying the PCR process was giving false positives. This information is not my personal information. It is those medical doctors an scientists who have seen the problems and share the warnings with us. They cannot help it if people have jumped into mass hysteria to take the wrong actions.

That is not what a false positive is, Mike. A false positive is a 'wrong result'.
Of course most positive results do not result in clinical significance because these sick folks go to bed for a few days until better, like our next door neighbour. No clinical significance! See?

If I am wrong, then the medical doctors are lying about patients being cured. The scientific studies are all wrong. If they are all wrong, then the trials for the experimental covid shots are all wrong. You are heading into nihilism. At that point it is only logical for you to just say you don't know anything helpful in the discussion. There just are not a lot of choices in the path you are formulating here.

No Mike. If you are wrong then you should eventually be very embarrassed about some of the stuff that you have written.

So far, everything you have told me about what will happen (where I live) if we vaccinate has been so wrong as to be a total reversal of what is actually happening here.

[eider]

The other way to look at the present situation...

You can try to guess why the medics are not paying attention to the effective treatments such as Ivermectin

OR

You can look at the science and the scientific discussions to see what the best scientific evidence is.

So far the best evidence here is how low the death rate is even though the delta variant is rampaging.

The purpose of science was to get beyond cultural beliefs and speculations by doing scientifically repeatable studies. That is what I am trying to share here.

Science is 'knowledge', Mike. You've been wrong almost all the time through recent months, in respect of what we have been doing in the UK.

If the studies I share are not contradicted by a trustworthy and better study, the studies I share should be the best advice we have now.

You need to think really hard about what you said there.
You have never discovered anything yourself, I suspect... you are just parroting stuff that you've heard..

If you feel the medics you are with have shown better scientific studies, then go with them. If they have unsupported practices, then consider getting medical treatments elsewhere.

In the last 12 months I have had multiple scans, tests and reviews, 3 minor operations, one major operation and four hospital 'stays'. Our medics are quite fantastic.
We (mostly) disregarded the alternative bulldust and rolled up for vaccination....... and it has saved us so far.
Our researchers will be working like hell to improve vaccination programs in readiness for further variations of covid.

[mikewhitney]

Mike, I have not protested what science shows. From the beginning of our posts I have repeated, again and again, that if our hospital cases and deaths reduce, that this will be my guide.
And our hospital cases and deaths have reduced....... and we are mostly all vaccinated. That's what I have protested.

we don't know much from just a reduction of hospitalized patients. This can simply be an end of a season. Israel had increased deaths and hospitalizations weeks after the elderly got shots.

I try to explain to others that the deaths should never have been high once we got Ivermectin into the library of treatments.

At the point where a patient cannot survive on oxygen alone, then there is not much else that medics can do. And you can't advise anything else either, I suspect.
I asked if you had any ideas........ you don't.

Oxygen can supplied with a oxygen tank and a feed to those nose or mouth. The ventilator is not needed but has been used anyhow. The ventilator is more for someone who cannot, for example, close the throat properly to keep fluids out of the lung.

The covid-19 has been described as a blood disease. This keeps the oxygen within the blood from getting to the cells. So, something needs to be supplied to repair the blood or to make it easier for the oxygen to transfer into the cells.

How soon we forget, Mike. And when we have vaccinated all teenaged males, will you forget that you told me the above?

I'm not sure how this will help do anything but kill and injure these teens. They are not susceptible to the bad effects of covid-19. Therefore, no one should even suggest that these younger ones get these shots. These shots may lead to life long injuries as we see how the experiment turns out. This is the saddest part of what is happening.

That is not what a false positive is, Mike. A false positive is a 'wrong result'.
Of course most positive results do not result in clinical significance because these sick folks go to bed for a few days until better, like our next door neighbour. No clinical significance! See?

This is an endless loop of discussions. There does not seem to be even a tenth of these "positives" where anyone notices anything. (this is my impression and estimate.) The amount of rna detected is meaningless at the levels allowed to run on the PCR process.

No Mike. If you are wrong then you should eventually be very embarrassed about some of the stuff that you have written.

So far, everything you have told me about what will happen (where I live) if we vaccinate has been so wrong as to be a total reversal of what is actually happening here.

There are plenty of people that have been made very ill by the shots. If you happen to live in the eye of the storm, be grateful.

I certainly hope that the harm anticipated by these experimental shots will not come to pass. However, people are lining up again for a third does into the experiment.

It is possible that I am as deceived as the people who are taking these experimental shots. This is the weird times that we are in. I just anticipate (especially with the research I've done) that the shots are a bigger risk than going without them.

[mikewhitney]

So far the best evidence here is how low the death rate is even though the delta variant is rampaging.


Science is 'knowledge', Mike. You've been wrong almost all the time through recent months, in respect of what we have been doing in the UK.


You need to think really hard about what you said there.
You have never discovered anything yourself, I suspect... you are just parroting stuff that you've heard..


In the last 12 months I have had multiple scans, tests and reviews, 3 minor operations, one major operation and four hospital 'stays'. Our medics are quite fantastic.
We (mostly) disregarded the alternative bulldust and rolled up for vaccination....... and it has saved us so far.
Our researchers will be working like hell to improve vaccination programs in readiness for further variations of covid.

Everything you are saying is assumptions. It is just the narratives shared day in and day out on the media. I have not seen where you have shared any scientific studies on anything. You have not explained how the deaths and injuries from the covid shots are so wonderful to happen to these misfortunate people.

I don't just parrot stuff. I examine the science. I have been correct in identifying flaws in the Pfizer study and in some studies on effective treatments. We have seen a couple bad studies published into journals -- ones that overdosed patients on hydroxychloroquine or that had faked world-wide data on another. I have to keep on reminding people that Ivermectin has over 60 trials -- this is strong accumulative testimony to its effectiveness (but not that all the trials had such positive results). One bad meta-analysis had reverse a referenced study's numbers and that made the results improperly look bad -- so the mistakes tend to make Ivermectin look worse rather than showing its benefits. Any hospital that does not use this would seem to be guilty of malpractice.

I'm glad that you have had good success with the medics. I'm just telling you that the solutions offered are not likely to keep this rosy image that you have imagined.

[eider]

we don't know much from just a reduction of hospitalized patients. This can simply be an end of a season. Israel had increased deaths and hospitalizations weeks after the elderly got shots.

I try to explain to others that the deaths should never have been high once we got Ivermectin into the library of treatments.

How has it worked for you?

Oxygen can supplied with a oxygen tank and a feed to those nose or mouth. The ventilator is not needed but has been used anyhow. The ventilator is more for someone who cannot, for example, close the throat properly to keep fluids out of the lung.

So you DO understand why ventilators have been used?
So you won't be knocking ventilator use in future?

I'm not sure how this will help do anything but kill and injure these teens. They are not susceptible to the bad effects of covid-19. Therefore, no one should even suggest that these younger ones get these shots. These shots may lead to life long injuries as we see how the experiment turns out. This is the saddest part of what is happening.

That was your projection for all people, several months ago, and you were wrong.
If in several months all our older teens are vaxed, with very very few reactions, what will you say then?

This is an endless loop of discussions. There does not seem to be even a tenth of these "positives" where anyone notices anything. (this is my impression and estimate.) The amount of rna detected is meaningless at the levels allowed to run on the PCR process.

That's because many people can carry Covid without being much affected by it, Mike.
That's why anybody testing positive for Covid should isolate, Mike.

There are plenty of people that have been made very ill by the shots. If you happen to live in the eye of the storm, be grateful.

We've all been vaccinated around here, Mike, and I don't anybody who has got ill from them.

[eider]

Everything you are saying is assumptions. It is just the narratives shared day in and day out on the media. I have not seen where you have shared any scientific studies on anything. You have not explained how the deaths and injuries from the covid shots are so wonderful to happen to these misfortunate people.

Which unfortunate people? All around here are double vaxxed. I've heard of no reactions.

I don't just parrot stuff. I examine the science. I have been correct in identifying flaws in the Pfizer study and in some studies on effective treatments. We have seen a couple bad studies published into journals -- ones that overdosed patients on hydroxychloroquine or that had faked world-wide data on another. I have to keep on reminding people that Ivermectin has over 60 trials -- this is strong accumulative testimony to its effectiveness (but not that all the trials had such positive results). One bad meta-analysis had reverse a referenced study's numbers and that made the results improperly look bad -- so the mistakes tend to make Ivermectin look worse rather than showing its benefits. Any hospital that does not use this would seem to be guilty of malpractice.

What dosage have you been receiving? Can you tellk us about your own experience with Ivermectine?

I'm glad that you have had good success with the medics. I'm just telling you that the solutions offered are not likely to keep this rosy image that you have imagined.

So far,. so good.
This virus will evolve, it will change, just as it already has.
I don't know how things will develop, and nor do you, but I hope our medics and researchers keep at it, doing their best to look ahead.
Once you are qualified maybe you too can join the researchers...... doing your best for your folks where you are.