Do Protestants Have A Problem With Works?

[Apologiaphoenix]

Should we go on guard when we hear works talked about?

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[One Bad Pig]

Did you speak up, or wait to write about it here? Do you know if other Protestants generally think the same way you do about this verse?

[Christianbookworm]

What exactly are good works? Is it being helpful and friendly? Being generous? Being kind?

[Dante]

I'm not sure how interpreting James 2 as being about justification before men addresses the question of James 2:14, much less how it doesn't jive with James 2:23 and 25, since the justification of Abraham and Rahab by their works have nothing to do with being justified before men. Not to mention how seeking to be justified before men would rather contradict Matthew 6:1-4.

Speaking of Matthew, I wonder what's your take on Matthew 25:14-30 and 31-46.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Did you speak up, or wait to write about it here? Do you know if other Protestants generally think the same way you do about this verse?

I tend to not speak up often in Bible study. If I do, I will speak up on many many things and there are several people, so I just wrote about it here.

[Apologiaphoenix]

I'm not sure how interpreting James 2 as being about justification before men addresses the question of James 2:14, much less how it doesn't jive with James 2:23 and 25, since the justification of Abraham and Rahab by their works have nothing to do with being justified before men. Not to mention how seeking to be justified before men would rather contradict Matthew 6:1-4.

Speaking of Matthew, I wonder what's your take on Matthew 25:14-30 and 31-46.

I think it's just saying a true faith will result in works, and both of these were lived out and we know the stories today. How do we know they were faithful? Because of what they did.

I also would say that that's how I interpret the other passages. A true faith produces true works.

[One Bad Pig]

I tend to not speak up often in Bible study. If I do, I will speak up on many many things and there are several people, so I just wrote about it here.

Respectfully, as a (known) Protestant attending the study, it is practically your duty to correct what you see as an erroneous statement of your position. If you're going to push back about something, why not push back at the person who actually stated it? It's sort of not nice to remain silent there, then respond where he's not likely to see it.

I also note you neglected to answer my other question.

ETA: To answer the question of your thread title, yes, Protestants tend to have a problem with works (the particular verse you cited notwithstanding).

[Dante]

I think it's just saying a true faith will result in works, and both of these were lived out and we know the stories today. How do we know they were faithful? Because of what they did.

I also would say that that's how I interpret the other passages. A true faith produces true works.

Except in all of Scripture, works were never spoken of as a product of faith, but faith working together with works, and by works faith is made perfect. James 2:22

[Apologiaphoenix]

Respectfully, as a (known) Protestant attending the study, it is practically your duty to correct what you see as an erroneous statement of your position. If you're going to push back about something, why not push back at the person who actually stated it? It's sort of not nice to remain silent there, then respond where he's not likely to see it.

I also note you neglected to answer my other question.

ETA: To answer the question of your thread title, yes, Protestants tend to have a problem with works (the particular verse you cited notwithstanding).

I don't see how I neglected to answer. I just said I haven't got to do any sort of survey.

Sometimes I want to say something, but I don't always get to in time before everyone has moved on to some other topic. The priest and i have a good relationship though. He follows me on Facebook and my posts are always there.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Except in all of Scripture, works were never spoken of as a product of faith, but faith working together with works, and by works faith is made perfect. James 2:22

I would have no problem with that aside from seeing those works do come from being in Christ, such as in John 15.

[NorrinRadd]

Except in all of Scripture, works were never spoken of as a product of faith, but faith working together with works, and by works faith is made perfect. James 2:22

That's a matter of interpretation. Protestants (with the exception of too large a percentage of Arminians) do not see what you see in Scripture.

While you interpret Jas. 2 through the lens of v. 22, we interpret it through 2:18. (Admittedly it is rarely a good idea to interpret an entire passage through a single verse, but oh well.)

Similarly in Eph. 2, we see v. 10 as the result of vv. 8 and 9, not something added to them.

We see Tit. 3:8 as the result of 3:5-7, not something added to them.

[Dante]

That's a matter of interpretation. Protestants (with the exception of too large a percentage of Arminians) do not see what you see in Scripture.

While you interpret Jas. 2 through the lens of v. 22, we interpret it through 2:18. (Admittedly it is rarely a good idea to interpret an entire passage through a single verse, but oh well.)

Similarly in Eph. 2, we see v. 10 as the result of vv. 8 and 9, not something added to them.

We see Tit. 3:8 as the result of 3:5-7, not something added to them.

I'm not sure you understand what Arminians actually believe, or perhaps you have conflated Arminianism with something else that's decidedly not Arminian.

Actually I interpret James 2 through verse 14.

As for Ephesians 2:10, Augustine saw it as a point added in order to disabuse anyone of the notion of Sola Fide.



I cannot see Titus 3:8 as a "result" of Titus 3:5-7 because it makes absolutely zero sense outside of the presupposition of Sola Fide.

[Dante]

I would have no problem with that aside from seeing those works do come from being in Christ, such as in John 15.

Speaking of works coming from being in Christ:



Indeed, anyone who has died to sin is now a slave to righteousness, that is, a servant of God, and as servants of God, we are not only made for good works (Ephesians 2:10) but also given good works to do.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Speaking of works coming from being in Christ:



Indeed, anyone who has died to sin is now a slave to righteousness, that is, a servant of God, and as servants of God, we are not only made for good works (Ephesians 2:10) but also given good works to do.

I'm really not sure how the parable establishes the point.

[Dante]

I'm really not sure how the parable establishes the point.

We are justified by works, and not by faith alone. The wicked and lazy servant feared his master, and did nothing with what he was given, and as a result, he was punished. Perhaps Christ's foretelling of the Day of Judgement which immediately followed after the parable of the talents would make things a lot clearer: