Is Jeffrey Dahmer In Heaven?

[Sparko]

Now we may sin more accidentally on purpose, but we still sin. We just act or speak without thinking.

how do you accidentally sin?

[Christianbookworm]

Carelessly act on autopilot when tired or sick? But does it count as din if you were not intentionally rebelling against God?

[Sparko]

Carelessly act on autopilot when tired or sick? But does it count as din if you were not intentionally rebelling against God?

I think all sin has to be intentional or it isn't sin.

For example, if you bumped into a shelf at the store and something fell into your purse, and you never noticed it, did you sin? It was "stolen" but you had no idea and you didn't do it intentionally so it wasn't a sin. Now if you found out about it later and didn't return it, THEN it becomes a sin because you are keeping something that doesn't belong to you intentionally.

[Cow Poke]

I think all sin has to be intentional or it isn't sin.

For example, if you bumped into a shelf at the store and something fell into your purse, and you never noticed it, did you sin? It was "stolen" but you had no idea and you didn't do it intentionally so it wasn't a sin. Now if you found out about it later and didn't return it, THEN it becomes a sin because you are keeping something that doesn't belong to you intentionally.

Even being tempted to sin isn't sin unless you act on it.

[tabibito]

Carelessly act on autopilot when tired or sick? But does it count as din if you were not intentionally rebelling against God?

Old Testament to the rescue on this one: You haven't sinned until you become aware that it is a sin. Then it needs to be repented, same as any other sin.

[tabibito]

And yet despite all of your protesting, you still sin, as do all Christians. So either you are wrong, or none of us are saved.

I don't make excuses for my sins. When I sin it results from both not hating my sins enough and not loving God enough. It is a signal that I still have work to do with regard to the latter.

[Sparko]

I don't make excuses for my sins. When I sin it results from both not hating my sins enough and not loving God enough. It is a signal that I still have work to do with regard to the latter.

So, if your previous interpretation about Christians not sinning anymore is true, then you are not saved.

[tabibito]

If I was not saved, I would not have the conferred ability to overcome sin. Using the conferred ability to overcome sin is a matter of perseverance and practice.

[Sparko]

If I was not saved, I would not have the conferred ability to overcome sin. Using the conferred ability to overcome sin is a matter of perseverance and practice.

And yet you claim that the bible teaches that those who belong to Christ don't sin. But you sin, so you don't belong to Christ. It doesn't say "they will sort of work towards not sinning" does it?

Either you are interpreting the verse(s) wrong or you are not saved. It's a simple either/or situation. You seem to want it both ways. Saying that Christians don't sin, but that you do sin but get some sort of pass because you are trying.

[tabibito]

And yet you claim that the bible teaches that those who belong to Christ don't sin.

Whatever gave you that idea?

But you sin, so you don't belong to Christ. It doesn't say "they will sort of work towards not sinning" does it?

Either you are interpreting the verse(s) wrong or you are not saved. It's a simple either/or situation. You seem to want it both ways. Saying that Christians don't sin, but that you do sin but get some sort of pass because you are trying.

Hardly - the message is clear enough ... we aren't instantly turned into mature/complete (often translated "perfect") Christians. That is something we are expected to achieve ... 1 John 3:2 we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as He is pure; Romans 8:13 if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live.

The Eastern Church affirms Theosis, as did the Westminster Divines, John Wesley, Kanzo Uchimura ktl.

[Sparko]

Whatever gave you that idea?

Oh please. Are you trying to pull a Carpedm on me?

After conversion, there will be "continuing to sin" as long as a person lives. No - I am satisfied that the Bible denies that.

There for one. and in another thread you argued it too.

[One Bad Pig]

Yes, as a process which is not complete this side of the grave. As long as we are in corruptible bodies, we have a propensity to sin.

[Cow Poke]

Yes, as a process which is not complete this side of the grave. As long as we are in corruptible bodies, we have a propensity to sin.

Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, prone to leave the God I love... Here's my heart, Lord, take and seal it, seal it for thy courts above.

[Faber]

Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it, prone to leave the God I love... Here's my heart, Lord, take and seal it, seal it for thy courts above.

There is an unverified story that the author of that song, Robert Robinson, had indeed drifted away later on in life, and was confronted by a lady on a stagecoach who was listening to that tune. He had confessed that he was the writer of that tune. Supposedly he had turned against the doctrine of the Trinity and was preaching against it.

Some years ago I heard a prominent conservative radio preacher tell that story (I think it was James Kennedy; or maybe John McArthur). But it appears to be just another one of those glurge stories preachers like to tell without checking the facts.

Possibly somebody confused him with another contemporary Robert Robinson who was a Unitarian minister.

[Cow Poke]

There is an unverified story that the author of that song, Robert Robinson, had indeed drifted away later on in life, and was confronted by a lady on a stagecoach who was listening to that tune. He had confessed that he was the writer of that tune. Supposedly he had turned against the doctrine of the Trinity and was preaching against it.

Some years ago I heard a prominent conservative radio preacher tell that story (I think it was James Kennedy; or maybe John McArthur). But it appears to be just another one of those glurge stories preachers like to tell without checking the facts.

Possibly somebody confused him with another contemporary Robert Robinson who was a Unitarian minister.

Yeah, that's one of those things I used to tell, then when we got the internetzweb, and I was actually able to track stuff down, I found it's not really confirmed. On the other hand, one of my favorite stories about walking a tight rope across Niagara WAS confirmed. I like to have confidence that the stories I use as illustrations can be verified. You never know when somebody will want to check.