Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
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Book Plunge: Understanding Four Views on the Lord's Supper
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Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostThe whole thing about it being less special if done every week doesn't make sense to me.
Is the sermon less special?
Is the offering?
Is the worship?
Is the prayer?
If your spouse wanted intimacy with you on a weekly basis at least, would it be less special?
Kinda like the Day of Atonement was special, but only once a year.
Feasts and Festivals were special, but only once a year.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostThe whole thing about it being less special if done every week doesn't make sense to me.
these things....
Is the sermon less special?
Is the offering?
Is the worship?
Is the prayer?
Pastors always seem to be looking for a new way to communicate or to capture the imagination of the congregants - it can't be just the same sermon every Sunday. This is why it's interesting to have a guest preacher from time to time.
My tithes and offerings (the baseline, anyway) get automatically transferred from my account to the church - with the special mission offerings or special events being over and above, where I actually write a check.
The worship? This is an age old quandary of its own -- if we're referring to the congregation's participation in the service, and there always seems to be an attempt to "mix it up" or enhance it, because it can, indeed, become stale.
Prayer? I know that the prayer my wife and I do before meals has become rather repetitive - I'm aware of that, and try to change it up some, as well.
So, yeah, those things, because of the frequency, can become rather 'programmed'.
If your spouse wanted intimacy with you on a weekly basis at least, would it be less special?
If it's only "having sex", it can really be a problem.
I'm not trying to argue here - I'm just thinking out loud. And, yeah, maybe it's ME!Last edited by Cow Poke; 01-09-2019, 09:18 AM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, so you're making me think....
these things....
...can, indeed, become "less special" with frequency.
Pastors always seem to be looking for a new way to communicate or to capture the imagination of the congregants - it can't be just the same sermon every Sunday. This is why it's interesting to have a guest preacher from time to time.
My tithes and offerings (the baseline, anyway) get automatically transferred from my account to the church - with the special mission offerings or special events being over and above, where I actually write a check.
The worship? This is an age old quandary of its own -- if we're referring to the congregation's participation in the service, and there always seems to be an attempt to "mix it up" or enhance it, because it can, indeed, become stale.
Prayer? I know that the prayer my wife and I do before meals has become rather repetitive - I'm aware of that, and try to change it up some, as well.
So, yeah, those things, because of the frequency, can become rather 'programmed'.
This is one of the reasons so many marriages fail - 'intimacy' becomes routine or.... couples often look for ways to 'shake things up', and intimacy in marriage is a very common problem.
If it's only "having sex", it can really be a problem.
I'm not trying to argue here - I'm just thinking out loud. And, yeah, maybe it's ME!
I also think this about Communion while holding to a more Memorial view. The first Sunday after Allie and I got back from our honeymoon, our church had Communion. Allie had hurt her leg and was in the back of the church watching the service on a TV. She couldn't get Communion herself, so I had to bring the bread and grape juice back to her. It really showed me what a great privilege it was to partake in a service like this and have the first recipient be my new wife.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, so you're making me think....
these things....
...can, indeed, become "less special" with frequency.
Pastors always seem to be looking for a new way to communicate or to capture the imagination of the congregants - it can't be just the same sermon every Sunday.
On a completely different note, a major reason why the Russian Orthodox Church survived under communism is because the services were the same. They weren't allowed to teach, but you can't read, much less participate in, Orthodox services without picking up the theology of the Church. The sermon may have been perforce reduced to pap, but the authorities didn't dare to attempt to change the services themselves.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThis seems to me to be sort of... preaching for entertainment.
"Entertainment"? While there's obviously a lot of that going on these days, I'm a little disappointed you'd manage to get that from what I was saying.
When the preaching is the high point (and by far the biggest chunk time-wise) of the service,
I suppose that can be a temptation -
though even in my Southern Baptist days, the sermon was just good, solid exegesis.
The only time I ran into this idea much was at the non-denominational church I was also attending a fair bit (services were at different times, so I could do both).
On a completely different note, a major reason why the Russian Orthodox Church survived under communism is because the services were the same. They weren't allowed to teach, but you can't read, much less participate in, Orthodox services without picking up the theology of the Church. The sermon may have been perforce reduced to pap, but the authorities didn't dare to attempt to change the services themselves.
I'm becoming more convinced than ever that you and I just seem to be incapable of communication.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThis seems to me to be sort of... preaching for entertainment. When the preaching is the high point (and by far the biggest chunk time-wise) of the service, I suppose that can be a temptation - though even in my Southern Baptist days, the sermon was just good, solid exegesis. The only time I ran into this idea much was at the non-denominational church I was also attending a fair bit (services were at different times, so I could do both).
On a completely different note, a major reason why the Russian Orthodox Church survived under communism is because the services were the same. They weren't allowed to teach, but you can't read, much less participate in, Orthodox services without picking up the theology of the Church. The sermon may have been perforce reduced to pap, but the authorities didn't dare to attempt to change the services themselves.
The book of Hebrews was almost certainly a spoken homily at first, and there are obvious examples of verbal techniques used to "communicate or capture the imagination of the congregants" (the five warnings weaved throughout, sometimes softened immediately after to lighten the blow, indicating possible hyperbole; Old Testament echoes, etc.) It's really a masterful example of communication, but entertainment?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostEntertainment? Jesus often found creative ways to get His message across -- If the preacher believes the Gospel is important, he doesn't just want to stand there and babble -- he wants to be an effective communicator.
"Entertainment"? While there's obviously a lot of that going on these days, I'm a little disappointed you'd manage to get that from what I was saying.
It's about half of the service in my experience
I'm becoming more convinced than ever that you and I just seem to be incapable of communication.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWhen you say "capture the imagination of the congregants" - that implies at least some element of entertainment.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat may be what you infer, but it is certainly not what I imply.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThank you for the clarification. Non-denominational churches, in my experience, certainly tend toward entertainment (bands leading worship, powerpoints, etc.), which seemed odd coming from you.
When I said "capture their imagination", I had in mind the teaching methods of Jesus, where He used current events, analogies, stories, parables, questions, repetition, visual illustrations, object lessons.... I simply meant as opposed to standing up there reading the sermon, which I've seen done, or using a wide range of scriptures out of context that might remotely support a point.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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