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The Orthodox Churches practices of veneration.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
    And do you think that perhaps this sort of veneration has become excessive in Orthodoxy and Catholicism, transgressing biblical precedent of regarding certain individuals as blessed and greatly used by God (cf. Acts 3:12)?

    STM that it is not really fair to the OP to ask him about the CC. From a Catholic POV, it is not remotely excessive, and in no way transgressive. The cultus of the Saints in the CC is a recognition
    Of course it was God doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul; and of course Paul recognized that, ensuring God was magnified. Do you think if the residents of Ephesus in Acts 19 turned their attention in a state of veneration magnifying Paul as well, that perhaps he might have rebuked them?

    Saints deserve to be held in honor and respect, love and esteem, being vehicles God used here on earth, but praying to departed saints seems excessive, falling into the category of human tradition at best.
    The Church has judged otherwise. The practice is not in Scripture - but neither is there a Scriptural list of the books of the NT. Catholics accept the lawfulness of venerating and invoking the Saints, and the lawfulness, canonicity, names, number, & inspiration of the NT books, on the same basis: because the Sacred Tradition of the Church, assisted (as we believe & trust) by God the Holy Spirit, has taught the Church to do so.




    This seems sufficiently vague and reminiscent of language used by those in cults when they lack biblical justification for their doctrines and practice.
    Such an argument needs to be filled out, so that the Christ-centredness, and the theological and doctrinal fittingness, of invoking the Saints, can be made clear. Not coercive or unanswerable, but clear. Those who have a habit of prayer to the Saints, are ISTM better qualified than those who know of the practice only from the outside to say what it has done for them.
    Of course this anecdote has more to do with you than any actual shortcomings of Protestantism, which you seem to acknowledge.

    Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 08-15-2018, 01:12 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      The word can be easily misunderstood, and many people don't have more than a surface understanding of things. I don't care much for "Mother of God" as a translation for "Theotokos" either, for much the same reason.
      I don't understand why aside from the commonality of the term 'theotokos'. She is undoubtedly Mother of God, in both of our traditions. We understand nothing different by those terms. Christ was carried in the womb of Mary, and His humanity and flesh comes from Her. Christ's mother is Mary.
      Last edited by Leonhard; 08-15-2018, 09:24 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
        I don't understand why aside from the commonality of the term 'theotokos'. She is undoubtedly Mother of God, in both of our traditions. We understand nothing different by those terms. Christ was carried in the womb of Mary, and His humanity and flesh comes from Her. Christ's mother is Mary.
        I am uncomfortable with it because it can be misinterpreted to mean that she is the mother of Jesus' deity, not just His humanity.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          I am uncomfortable with it because it can be misinterpreted to mean that she is the mother of Jesus' deity, not just His humanity.
          I've honestly yet to encounter anyone who thinks like this.

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