Book Plunge: Making Gay Okay

[Jedidiah]

Interestingly enough, the eugenics movement often used the same argument too about how they were 'purifying' the human race. We all know what happened to them and what they ended up doing...

Yes, they are still around in the form of Planned Parenthood.

[One Bad Pig]

Your oddly nitpicky about one gathering. While the SBC and the ABC split it wasn't over slavery it was over women's ordination. Bear in mind that at one point the entire nation approved of slave holding and it really was not illegal anywhere, so if you want to attack Christianity you may as well attack every denomination. And while you could say the SBC has been "special" in catching up to the rest of the scholars, I don't think there are too many here that are actually SBC's and they do not represent Christianity as a whole, just a small fraction of Christian Churches. So you're attacking using a small portion doesn't hold up well. Not to mention it shows a crap ton of ignorance when you come on here saying "well the SBC did this" And if you read people's profiles you'd see things like "orthodox, non denominational, Catholic, Presbyterian, Lutheran Episcopal, Methodist" We aren't creedal but we are scholarly or we try to be. Also Souther Christian Conservative has a BIIIG Meaning with a LOT of denominations, ex, I have Methodists and Presbyterians and Lutherans in my lineage so be careful what you try to fabricate and to whom you attempt to fabricate it toward. Just sayin.
Next I think you have a lump idea that "Crazy Christians want gays to be straight" Um no no not really. What we want is to point out that the relations of same sex aren't natural and according to us sinful. We expect or hope that someone claiming to be Orthodox who also feels same sex attraction recognizes that its against the Bible and chooses to abstain.
However what ever others do, we know we can't change it and we don't expect it to be changed but a person should not be forced to do business. On principle the right to refuse service to anyone is the right of a private business. Now I may think its a little silly on several levels, but forcing beliefs on someone who gets NO government assistance is wrong. period.

In Gary's world, every Christian who isn't a universalist is a fundamentalist conservative.

[shunyadragon]

Another meme, that has absolutely no actual historical understanding behind it? Christian church's were one of the biggest supporters of anti slavery, in pre civil war America. The first women's rights convention was held in a church and many pastors and Christian groups were in support of it. Likewise, if you haven't noticed, Martin Luther King Jr was a Christian minster. Besides, non Christians have supported plenty of bad movements themselves or are you unaware of the links between atheist, the progressive movement, and eugenics? Many atheist and progressives were in support of segregation and in support of racist eugenics policy (in fact, yet again, Christians were opposed to racist eugenics policy and I can prove this too). Do yourself a favor Gary, stop talking. You'll do atheism a great favor by doing that.

Actually I think he is right on big time. It is you that needs to yourself a favor.

[lilpixieofterror]

Actually I think he is right on big time. It is you that needs to yourself a favor.

Too bad most people around here don't take you seriously (including myself). Thanks, an endorsement by you is the kiss of death. Thanks for endorsing Gary. It makes it that much easier to reject everything he says.

[thewriteranon]

Your oddly nitpicky about one gathering. While the SBC and the ABC split it wasn't over slavery it was over women's ordination. Bear in mind that at one point the entire nation approved of slave holding and it really was not illegal anywhere, so if you want to attack Christianity you may as well attack every denomination. And while you could say the SBC has been "special" in catching up to the rest of the scholars, I don't think there are too many here that are actually SBC's and they do not represent Christianity as a whole, just a small fraction of Christian Churches. So you're attacking using a small portion doesn't hold up well. Not to mention it shows a crap ton of ignorance when you come on here saying "well the SBC did this" And if you read people's profiles you'd see things like "orthodox, non denominational, Catholic, Presbyterian, Lutheran Episcopal, Methodist" We aren't creedal but we are scholarly or we try to be. Also Souther Christian Conservative has a BIIIG Meaning with a LOT of denominations, ex, I have Methodists and Presbyterians and Lutherans in my lineage so be careful what you try to fabricate and to whom you attempt to fabricate it toward. Just sayin.
Next I think you have a lump idea that "Crazy Christians want gays to be straight" Um no no not really. What we want is to point out that the relations of same sex aren't natural and according to us sinful. We expect or hope that someone claiming to be Orthodox who also feels same sex attraction recognizes that its against the Bible and chooses to abstain.
However what ever others do, we know we can't change it and we don't expect it to be changed but a person should not be forced to do business. On principle the right to refuse service to anyone is the right of a private business. Now I may think its a little silly on several levels, but forcing beliefs on someone who gets NO government assistance is wrong. period.

No, the SBC split in the late 80s/early 90s over women's ordination. The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship resulted from that. The SBC split from American Baptists long before that, immediately prior to the Civil War for a few reasons including different understandings of how conventions should work, the northern Baptists moving the convention out of range and, yes, slavery. I've literally written two papers about that at this point.

ETA:

At least three factors led to that fateful schism: disagreements on methods of organization, problems in home mission work, and the slavery controversy.

The Baptist Heritage, by H. Leon McBeth.

ETA2: Apparently my Google book won't quote.

[lilpixieofterror]

No, the SBC split in the late 80s/early 90s over women's ordination. The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship resulted from that. The SBC split from American Baptists long before that, immediately prior to the Civil War for a few reasons including different understandings of how conventions should work, the northern Baptists moving the convention out of range and, yes, slavery. I've literally written two papers about that at this point.

Which disproves rather than proves Gary's view.

[thewriteranon]

Which disproves rather than proves Gary's view.

I really have no idea what Gary's point is, but I am by default inclined to disagree with him. I just wanted to clarify since I just finished The Baptist Identity this last Monday.

[lilpixieofterror]

I really have no idea what Gary's point is, but I am by default inclined to disagree with him. I just wanted to clarify since I just finished The Baptist Identity this last Monday.

Gary is trying to argue that Christians have been on the 'wrong side' of social issues, including slavery. If Christian groups were splitting over the issue of slavery (and they were) that would show that many Christians were anti slavery and put a huge hole in his claims.

[thewriteranon]

Gary is trying to argue that Christians have been on the 'wrong side' of social issues, including slavery. If Christian groups were splitting over the issue of slavery (and they were) that would show that many Christians were anti slavery and put a huge hole in his claims.

Oh well, then for sure. There were several battalions entirely from Texas that fought for the North, in fact.

[Gary]

Gary is trying to argue that Christians have been on the 'wrong side' of social issues, including slavery. If Christian groups were splitting over the issue of slavery (and they were) that would show that many Christians were anti slavery and put a huge hole in his claims.

CONSERVATIVE Christians have been on the wrong side of most social issues. LIBERAL Christians have often been on the front lines of social justice movements and I applaud and honor LIBERAL Christians for their heroic and noble efforts!

[Bill the Cat]

CONSERVATIVE Christians have been on the wrong side of most social issues. LIBERAL Christians have often been on the front lines of social justice movements and I applaud and honor LIBERAL Christians for their heroic and noble efforts!

Admit it Gary... you want to wear that giant powdered wig out in public without shame.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Gary reminds me of the preacher writing his sermon and putting on the side "Weak point. Pound pulpit harder."

[lilpixieofterror]

CONSERVATIVE Christians have been on the wrong side of most social issues. LIBERAL Christians have often been on the front lines of social justice movements and I applaud and honor LIBERAL Christians for their heroic and noble efforts!

In other words, Gary is still making up things in order to make his rants sound right. What is a 'conservative' and a 'liberal' Christian as you are defining them? Is your black/white fundy atheist brain unable to absorb the reality that it is quite possible for somebody to be both, depending on the issue in question?

[thewriteranon]

In other words, Gary is still making up things in order to make his rants sound right. What is a 'conservative' and a 'liberal' Christian as you are defining them? Is your black/white fundy atheist brain unable to absorb the reality that it is quite possible for somebody to be both, depending on the issue in question?

Forreal. Judgement of what would be a liberal Christian (other than radical obvious things like unitarianism) pre-Fundamentalist surge of the twentieth century is pretty subjective.

[lilpixieofterror]

Forreal. Judgement of what would be a liberal Christian (other than radical obvious things like unitarianism) pre-Fundamentalist surge of the twentieth century is pretty subjective.

Liberal/conservative are pretty subjective terms to start with, so attempting to argue that one group is 'right' and the other is 'wrong' is like trying to nail jello to a wall. I personally prefer to focus on issues rather than attempting to white wash all liberals/conservatives as being 'on the wrong side of every issue'.