SNL and God's Not Gay

[Gary]

YOu say that you have a right ot force someone to work for you that is slavery

Do you believe that the owner of a diner should have the right to reserve service to all Blacks?

[Apologiaphoenix]

If he wants to, yes. If he wants to refuse service to all whites, yes. If he wants to refuse service to all people over six feet tall, yes. He is under no obligation to sell me his goods and/or services.

[Christianbookworm]

If he wants to, yes. If he wants to refuse service to all whites, yes. If he wants to refuse service to all people over six feet tall, yes. He is under no obligation to sell me his goods and/or services.

Of course, those would be poor business choices. Because no one would shop there if the owner was that picky about their clientele. Is there any work of fiction I can bring up? I don't recall any stories like that. I do remember that Berenstain Bear books had a story about Papa not liking that his new neighbors were pandas.

[Secular Liberation]

If he wants to, yes. If he wants to refuse service to all whites, yes. If he wants to refuse service to all people over six feet tall, yes. He is under no obligation to sell me his goods and/or services.

Now you show your true colors, Nick.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/9-27.htm

nashville1957b.jpg

[Apologiaphoenix]

What true colors? Saying someone has the freedom to do x doesn't mean that I think it's right. If homosexual bakers wanted to refuse service to all Christians, they have that right. No one has a right to anyone else's goods or services. That's freedom.

[RumTumTugger]

Do you believe that the owner of a diner should have the right to reserve service to all Blacks?

Like Nick said the diner is under no obligation to sell me or anyone his goods.

[Raphael]

What true colors? Saying someone has the freedom to do x doesn't mean that I think it's right. If homosexual bakers wanted to refuse service to all Christians, they have that right. No one has a right to anyone else's goods or services. That's freedom.

methinks he is confusing the fact that if we think someone should have the freedom to do something means that we endorse and support that something.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

What true colors? Saying someone has the freedom to do x doesn't mean that I think it's right. If homosexual bakers wanted to refuse service to all Christians, they have that right. No one has a right to anyone else's goods or services. That's freedom.

They actually don't have that right, insofar as I understand the law, because religious identity constitutes a protected class. Race is also a protected class, and sexual orientation is considered to be a protected class in many (if not most) states, to my knowledge. However, I am not aware of any states which classify Offensive Speech as part of a protected class, let alone Bigotry.

So, denying service to someone because he is Christian is illegal, as I understand things. Denying service to someone because he is Asian is illegal. In many states, denying service to someone because he is gay is illegal.

However, it is not illegal to deny service to someone who is shouting curse words. It is not illegal to deny service to someone who makes a raunchy joke. It is not illegal to deny service to someone who hates the Yankees, or to someone who loves the Red Sox. It is not illegal to deny service to someone who wears clothes that you don't like or dyes her hair a funny color. It is not illegal to deny service to someone with visible tattoos or piercings. It is not illegal to deny service to someone who claims White people are superior to Black people.

It is certainly not illegal to deny service to a venue which resides in a state that has laws with which the potential service provider disagrees.

I've seen a lot of people comparing the Christian bakers scenario to Bruce Springsteen's recent announcement, but the two situations do not seem analogous, at all, from a legal perspective.

[Gary]

If he wants to, yes. If he wants to refuse service to all whites, yes. If he wants to refuse service to all people over six feet tall, yes. He is under no obligation to sell me his goods and/or services.

No, you are wrong. Under current law the owner of a diner cannot refuse service based on race. That might be how you would like things to be (stunning!), but that is contrary to the laws of the United States of America.

Be careful what you wish for, Nick. How would you like it if one day owners of restaurants and hotels refuse service to Christians?

[Gary]

What true colors? Saying someone has the freedom to do x doesn't mean that I think it's right. If homosexual bakers wanted to refuse service to all Christians, they have that right. No one has a right to anyone else's goods or services. That's freedom.

If we followed your thinking, Nick, African-Americans would be eating "out back" of restaurants, not allowed to eat with "good" white people, and using separate bathrooms and drinking fountains. Shame on you. You are better than that.

[Gary]

Like Nick said the diner is under no obligation to sell me or anyone his goods.

Not under the laws of the United States of America. That may have been the case in the Confederate States of America, but not in this country.

[One Bad Pig]

If we followed your thinking, Nick, African-Americans would be eating "out back" of restaurants, not allowed to eat with "good" white people, and using separate bathrooms and drinking fountains. Shame on you. You are better than that.

Gary, you're confusing mandatory segregation (it was encoded in law) with voluntary refusal of service.

[Apologiaphoenix]

It's not about liking. It's simply stating that a good or service is my property. The government should not be able to force me to do something with my property. That's not capitalism. It's not saying I think businesses should do this or support it, but saying that's what freedom means.

[Gary]

It's not about liking. It's simply stating that a good or service is my property. The government should not be able to force me to do something with my property. That's not capitalism. It's not saying I think businesses should do this or support it, but saying that's what freedom means.

Thank you for clarifying. It is your opinion of how the law should be, not how it actually is.

Thank goodness are country is moving to a more progressive world view. Odds are a Democrat will be the next president, and if that happens, she/he will appoint a liberal to the Supreme Court, giving liberals a majority for the first time in many decades...and then the long run of white-male, Southern, conservative dominance in Washington and the country will come to an end.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Ah. So Gary, you support the idea of the government being able to tell you what you must do with your own goods or services?