William, I read some of your blog and am surprised you said what you did re the Jews and the book of Esther. Surely the implication is that God, even though He is not mentioned, is the unseen ingredient which makes the difference to the ultimate fortunes of the people.
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary
Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
-
Gary has this bizarre idea that if you accept that miraculous events can happen, you must accept all of them. Well you should be open to ANY claim but only accept those that are evidenced well. Some claims are better evidenced than others. The assumption for Gary is all such claims are equally evidenced, but this must be shown. I think of what Chesterton said.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostGary has this bizarre idea that if you accept that miraculous events can happen, you must accept all of them. Well you should be open to ANY claim but only accept those that are evidenced well. Some claims are better evidenced than others. The assumption for Gary is all such claims are equally evidenced, but this must be shown. I think of what Chesterton said.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sea of red View PostBut it's a totally separate question that in theory, we should simply remain neutral and use other methods to determine the date. I'm of the opinion that Paul's silence in his letters, what we know about Paul and Peter's history in Rome, what we've got from church history, and when it was used that a date around 65-75 AD is much more plausible.
You're assuming the Romans or Jews would have gone to the trouble of doing such a thing. They had their own problems without continuing to get mixed-up with a religious happening they all saw as a mere cult.
When a fire breaks out in Rome, Christians are easy scapegoats. As the movement gets larger, government gets more and more involved, but at the local level, shame was also enough.
Comment
-
Paul was born in AD 10 - Accordingly, AD 75 would have seen him as 65 years old. Given that his authorship of a number of letters is unquestioned, it is reasonable to assume that he would have written most of his letters prior to AD 100.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
Originally posted by tabibito View PostPaul was born in AD 10 - Accordingly, AD 75 would have seen him as 65 years old. Given that his authorship of a number of letters is unquestioned, it is reasonable to assume that he would have written most of his letters prior to AD 100.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostI'm curious. Do you have a source on him being born in A.D. 10?1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
Correction: (perhaps) - I can't trace the first article that I saw the reference in, and the 1905 version of the Jewish Encyclopaedia states only that Paul was born during the first decade AD.
1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
I really can't take that seriously. It might have been valid back at one point in time, but not today. There's no reason to think the Philippians passage is an interpolation or spurious and Philippians is accepted universally as a genuine Pauline letter. In fact, we are sure of seven epistles altogether so the last line is definitely false. Galatians is mentioned earlier as a cause of suspicion but Galatians is one of the universally accepted ones.
I also don't think the statements in Acts place any time frame on his birth. What we know from Acts is that he was trained under Gamaliel and that he was born a Roman citizen in Tarsus. That raises its own questions, but I see no place for being certain on the date of his birth.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostSure, but I do think it sounds kind of like conjecture. We don't have much autobiographical material on Paul.
I think if there was any way for the authors of the Jewish Encyclopaedia to declare Paul as born after the death of Christ, they would have seized the opportunity with relish. They have enough material available to be reasonably sure of his birth date.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
-
Originally posted by tabibito View Postbiographical, not autobiographical.
I think if there was any way for the authors of the Jewish Encyclopaedia to declare Paul as born after the death of Christ, they would have seized the opportunity with relish. They have enough material available to be reasonably sure of his birth date.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Abigail View PostGary this is a false parallel from the start since the disciples had not spent ages meditating and purifying their hearts when they saw Jesus eg Peter had recently denied Him. There was no work, "strength of mind and practice in meditation", required.
In anycase it seems clear to me that the implication carried within what Sri Ramana Maharshi is telling these questioners, is that such purity as is needed actually requires you redefine your own identity and that might mean eschewing the physical.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostNo. I mean autobiographical. Many skeptics will not accept Acts, but they will accept the genuine Pauline epistles so the best information we get on Paul is generally seen as autobiographical information.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
Comment